looking to start a 10g planted tank, few ?s

[Joey2619]

Hey guys. I just picked up a 10g and a 20g long tank the other day. I'm looking to put the 10g setup on my desk, and do a planted shrimp tank. Currently, I have the stock hood/lighting on the 10g, and I'm looking to get a bit more light out of it without dropping tons of money at this point.

So my questions are:

1. If I gut the stock lighting assembly, and throw a double incadencent light socket in there, and put two spiral CFLs in there from Home Depot/Walmart, will that be enough for now?

I was thinking about doing two of these
EcoSmart 14 Watt (60W) Daylight, 4 Pack (E)* - ES5M814450K at The Home Depot

or two of these

EcoSmart 27 Watt (100W) Daylight, 2 Pack (E)* - ES5M827250K at The Home Depot

2. The next question is, how do these lights fare against regular T5 output? I mean, the spirals, they don't produce the best light I'm sure, can someone shed some light on this? I searched but didn't find any conclusive answers, but I figured this would be a great, easy, cheap way to start.

3. I'm going to pickup some Flourite Black sand possibly today, they come in 15lb bags, how many would I need for the 10g?

4. What's my best shot with filtration?

5. Do I need any air pumps or anything like that?

6. I plan to cycle the tank with pure ammonia if I can find it locally. During the cycling process, I'll order some plants and throw them in there. How long after the cycle process is complete can I then put RCS in there?

7. What about nutients and ferts?

8. Anything else I should be aware of?

9. I also have driftwood and various other things in my 75g, the tank has been set up for 10 years now, and hasn't ever needed to be torn down, no issues with it ever. Could I take some of the objects out of there, possibly some gravel, and cut down the time for cycling in the 10g tank? Any more info?

Thanks!

Once I get this tank down pat, I have a 75g bow and 20g long waiting for some love!

 

[neilanh]

Well, it really depends on what kind of plants you're hoping to grow as to whether or not the lighting you mentioned will be sufficient. Can you tell us your plans?

2) CFLs are great because they're cheap, but they won't provide the same quality of light that T5s can. The main downside to the CFLs is called restrike, which is where the light generated is actually partially prevented from penetrating into the water column because of the shape of the bulb.

3) Again, depends on how deep you want the sand bed to be in there. For planted tanks, I like a really deep bed, at least 3". You'll probably need 2 bags for that. You could, of course, buy 1 and try it and add another later if you needed to.

4) Again, it depends on what kind of tank setup you want. You'd probably be okay with an AC20 or something similar though.

5) You shouldn't need any airpumps if you're going planted.

6) If you're going to put plants in during the cycle, they can help, but you'll need to be careful of your cycle levels. i.e. don't run your cycle at 5ppm ammonia as that can hurt the plants as well. Personally, if it were me, for just an RCS tank I wouldn't cycle it. Plant it heavily and give the plants a month or 2 to get established, then you can start adding shrimp. With only shrimp your bioload is going to be very small, and the plants, if they're doing well, will be able to handle it while the tank cycles. This is known as a Silent Cycle if you want to read up on it.

7) Again, depends on the tank. If you're going for a high light, high tech setup, you'll need to research ferts and CO2.

9) Yeah, anything you can add will help.

 

[JohnPaul]

Lots of good info already from neilanh but I'll chime in here as well.

1. If I gut the stock lighting assembly, and throw a double incadencent light socket in there, and put two spiral CFLs in there from Home Depot/Walmart, will that be enough for now?

I was thinking about doing two of these
EcoSmart 14 Watt (60W) Daylight, 4 Pack (E)* - ES5M814450K at The Home Depot

or two of these

EcoSmart 27 Watt (100W) Daylight, 2 Pack (E)* - ES5M827250K at The Home Depot

You have the general idea down. The problem is that both of those links you provided are to bulbs that are only 5000K. That is at the really, really low end (borderline "too low to be helpful") for growing plants. I would really look for something in the 6500K range instead. Also, note regarding the latter one that most standard incandescent strips sized to fit a 10g tank are rated only up to 50W. If you were to use two 27W bulbs, you are exceeding the maximum safe wattage for the strip--you might be okay, but I myself wouldn't want to take that risk.

2. The next question is, how do these lights fare against regular T5 output? I mean, the spirals, they don't produce the best light I'm sure, can someone shed some light on this? I searched but didn't find any conclusive answers, but I figured this would be a great, easy, cheap way to start.

T5 are much more efficient and will give you more effective lighting, but at a much higher price. FWIW, I have a couple of 10g planted shrimp tanks, over each of them I have two 15W spiral CF bulbs (6500K), for a total of 3.0 WPG. I can grow all low-light plants and most medium-light plants, though some suffer because I don't use CO2 and only dose ferts in very, very low amounts (due to it being a shrimp tank, shrimps are really sensitive to water quality). Plants that are borderline medium-high light plants tend to look scraggly.

3. I'm going to pickup some Flourite Black sand possibly today, they come in 15lb bags, how many would I need for the 10g?

One bag is adequate for a 10g. It will get you a bed depth of about 1.5". (I use FBS in both of my tanks so I am saying this from experience.) If you want a deeper substrate bed, then you would need a second bag. IMO, 1.5" is deep enough for most normal circumstances, even in a planted tank, though I suppose to some degree it depends on what plants you are planning on and how deep their roots like to grow.

4. What's my best shot with filtration?

Either a good quality sponge filter, or else a quality HOB filter in which you put an additional sponge pre-filter over the intake pipe. If you don't, then the baby shrimplets will be sucked up by the filter and die.

5. Do I need any air pumps or anything like that?

No.

6. I plan to cycle the tank with pure ammonia if I can find it locally. During the cycling process, I'll order some plants and throw them in there. How long after the cycle process is complete can I then put RCS in there?

Well, shrimp do better in an "aged" tank, since the primary component of their diet is not any food you will put in there (which should be very minimal), but rather, the natural biofilm & algae that grows on all the surfaces of everything in the tank. A brand-newly cycled tank doesn't have much in the way of biofilm. You can accelerate the process of biofilm development by getting some snails in the tank as soon as possible--put them in while you are cycling (if you are keeping your ammonia levels low enough for the snails to survive), or if not, get them in as quickly as possible after cycling. The earlier you get your plants in the tank the better, again, because it gives more time for biofilm to start developing on them. It is also helpful if you be sure you are giving your tank a full 12 hours of light per day, if not more, during the cycling process, as this will help encourage algae growth.

So you *can* add your RCS as soon as the tank is cycled, but if you can add other stuff into the tank that might have some biofilm on it, that would be a good idea. (Any rocks or plants you could pull from an established tank? etc.)

7. What about nutients and ferts?

Dwarf shrimp are extremely sensitive to water quality. In general, (ferts+shrimp) is not a great combo. Not saying it can't be done, just saying that in a dwarf shrimp tank you need to be extremely cautious in your use of ferts.

8. Anything else I should be aware of?

Keeping dwarf shrimp is a different experience from keeping fish. There are a number of great sources of info out there, including Petshrimp and Arizona Inverts. The first of those two has probably the best collection of articles on shrimpkeeping and on various shrimp species, the latter has (IMO, at least) the friendliest group of shrimpkeepers you will ever meet, who will patiently answer any & all questions you might have and be able to share a lot of info about how to get into the shrimp hobby. I'm quite active on the Arizona Inverts forums and have learned a ton about shrimpkeeping from some of the experts there. Also learned a lot about other freshwater inverts, from dwarf crays to crabs to all sorts of specialized snails like the Assassin snail. Good stuff.

9. I also have driftwood and various other things in my 75g, the tank has been set up for 10 years now, and hasn't ever needed to be torn down, no issues with it ever. Could I take some of the objects out of there, possibly some gravel, and cut down the time for cycling in the 10g tank? Any more info?

Absolutely. What kind of filter does it use? Ideally you could take some "filter gunk" from that tank and use it to instantly cycle your new tank.

Thanks!

Once I get this tank down pat, I have a 75g bow and 20g long waiting for some love!

Haha, sounds good. Good luck and please keep us posted on how things progress!

 

[Joey2619]

Thank you guys so much for all the info, it's very much appreciated.

Just as neilanh said, I'm definitely going to go with a AC20. I'm picking up a 50w heater today. I'm about to head out to homedepot to get the lighting supplies I need. I just got back from picking up pure ammonia for the cycle.

I'll pick up two bags of Flourite, and whatever I don't use can be used for the other tanks.

The other question I had was, if I use filter gunk, some gravel, and maybe take one of my HUGE 14" amazon swords from the 75g which has been setup for the past 10 years, AND fill my 10g with tank water from the other tank, is there really a need to cycle at that point? And if so, for how long?

Also, another thing, do I need a top for this tank since it's only shrimp?

And just for what it's worth, shalu has been my immediate inspiration, I'd love to get some of the plants that he has in this tank as well...

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f70/shalus-10-gallon-shrimp-tank-56415.html

I see xmas moss in there, ludwigia arcuata as mentioned, looks like some glosso? What else is in there?

 

[jeremyblevins]

the only way to know about the cycle is to use ammonia and a test kit, once your ammonia goes to 0 within 24 hours it means your tank is cycled.

 

[JohnPaul]

In terms of the cycle, all that really matters is filter gunk. Add a bunch of filter gunk from the filter in your old tank into the filter of your new, you can be almost sure you will have an instant cycle. If you are really worried about it, yes you can add a little ammonia and check to be sure it has disappeared by the next day.

As for a top, well, a top is helpful in several ways. Helps maintain temperature by holding in heat. Helps maintain water level by cutting down on evaporation. And you are going to need a top if you plan to have lights on the tank, unless you plan on rigging some sort of contraption to suspend your lights in mid air.