Low KH/GH...How do I raise them?

[natebob]

I'm taking my first major attempt at finally getting a decent planted tank going. I want to DIY CO2 but when I tested my KH it is way too low. I've read that 3 dKH is the bare minimum for CO2 but I'm measuring 0 to 1 dKH (out of the tap I get 1 to 2 dKH). GH is not much better at 2 dGH.

I just started this tank about 1 week ago. It's a small 10G to keep me busy while at school (as if it isn't hard enough already), It has some plants that a friend gave me (not sure what they are, if important I can work on that) and some driftwood. Substrate is Flourite. Current has 20W CF but on order is a 36W AHsupply to either complement the 20W CF or stand alone. Filter is an AC Mini. pH is around 7.2 to 7.4. No fish yet, once things get going it will probably house some neons or similar.

What's the best way to get the KH and GH up? I've read that CaCO3 can be difficult to dissolve, some people use crushed coral (but I don't really want to buy a 10lb bag for 1/4 cup of it). Any other suggestions?

BTW - this forum has helped tremendously in getting me setup the right way - so far...hopefully.

A big thanks to everyone for your help

 

[Guest]

Calcium carbonate and Epsom salts work great to raise both gH and kH. See my FAQ for how to use them.

 

[mixman]

i would use some baking soda it works the best for raising KH and its very cheap. use about 1 teaspoon per 20 gal of water and pore it in slowley. it will raise your PH quickly.and you KH will go up about 2 DKH. hope this helps

 

[TankGirl]

Be extremely careful raising pH - swings are deadly to fish. If you go this way then do it very slowly and gradually.

 

[Medusa Head]

I use Seachem Alkaline Buffer for kH and Seachem Equilibrium for gH.

I'd recommend adding 1/4 teaspoon at a time to a 10 gallon tank and take measurements in between until you reach the desired setting. They are very gentle (when used at the recommended dosage rate) and give immediate results. They are carbonate based products and compatible with CO2 test charts. It also dissolves very quickly and easily.

It seems on most forums that everyone always replies and says not to use these products. I have no idea why this is the case. I have never had a single fish die after adding the product. I have found Seachem to be one of the better companies out there - they spent a lot of time and research in developing their products, and they answer each and every customer e-mail inquiry regarding any of their products. Not trying to sound like an advertisment - it's just that I have been using their products for some time now and have been very happy with them.

 

[Guest]

Equilibrium contains a lot of potassium. Which can cause calcium uptake problems in soft water tanks. Also baking soda, calcium carbonate and magnesium sulfate are very inexpensive compared to the Seachem products.

 

[Medusa Head]

Can you site your source to the statement that Equilibrium contains a lot of potassium. How much exactly does it contain? There are many differing opinions to how much potassium should be in a planted tank - some people say no more than 2 ppm, others say 10, others say 20, others say 50.

From my experience baking soda can cloud water.

Where would one buy calcium carbonate and magnesium sulfate?

I looked at your site and I see you even went so far as to get banned from plantgeeks speaking against these products, so I pretty much assume there's absolutely no changing your mind. But, they do work very well for me and I couldn't be happier with them.

For natebob, $15 gets him a product designed for aquarium use that will instantly raise his kH by adding 1/4 teaspoon, and will probably last him for years (on a 10 gallon tank at least).

 

[Guest]

Well you are incorrect as to why I was banned at Plant Geek and I have no idea what gave you the IMHO stupid idea that I was banned at Plant Geek for speaking out against Equilibrium. And you are correct. I'm not going to change my mind and use a $15 product when a $1 product will work just the same.

Equilibrium contains 23% potassium, this comes direct from the Seachem web site. The general advice on a planted tank is 20 ppm of potassium. But many people do just fine at much lower levels.

I have never had baking soda cloud the water and I have used a lot of baking soda in a lot of water. Calcium carbonate will cause a temporary cloudiness of the water as it doesn't dissolve very quickly. One can avoid this buy using calcium chloride instead. I know many people who use a mix of baking soda for kH, and calcium chloride and magnesium sulfate for gH.

Calcium carbonate can be obtained at any place that sells home brewing supplies or from www.gregwatson.com. Magnesium sulfate is Epsom salts and can be found just about anywhere.

For around $6 locally I can get enough calcium carbonate, magnesium sulfate and baking soda to adjust the water in my ~120 gallons of planted tanks for many years.

 

[Medusa Head]

Thanks for the info!

When raising gH, isn't that a combination of calcium and magnesium? So are you saying to add both or mix them? I guess for me premixed stuff is easier.

I was just commenting on this page at your web site: http://rexgrigg.com/pg.htm where your were actually speaking out against acid buffer, not Equilibrium... it just seems to me that you are so passionately against these! :?

 

[Guest]

You can either add both or mix them. I mix them up and just add them to the tank.

Well just reading that page doesn't tell the whole story. Let me give you the background.

The person I was responding too had an algae problem. They were told to get their nutrient values corrected and get their CO2 level up to around 25-30 ppm. So this dimwit takes a look at the kH/pH/CO2 chart and figures if they can get their pH down to a certain point they will have the 25-30 ppm of CO2. So they went out and bought a bottle of phosphoric acid based acid buffer to lower the pH. By the time they had gotten the pH down to where they wanted it they had killed fish, and created and even bigger algae problem due to very high phosphates.

I'm not opposed to the use of buffers to harden the water for fish that require it or for adding hardness to very soft water. But I am opposed to adding acid buffers to the water to lower the pH. Also I like to get good value for my dollar and add only what I need to add.

 

[Guest]

Rex, Seachem says on its website, in its support and faq's, and prints on every bottle that their Acid Buffer converts kH into available CO2. You go around everywhere and tell everyone that this is a blatant lie. You are accusing Seachem of lying, false advertising, and spreading misleading information. That's quite a bold stance to take.

 

[Guest]

Rex, Seachem says on its website, in its support and faq's, and prints on every bottle that their Acid Buffer converts kH into available CO2. You go around everywhere and tell everyone that this is a blatant lie. You are accusing Seachem of lying, false advertising, and spreading misleading information. That's quite a bold stance to take.

This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community. I dare you to show me where I have said anything like what you claim I have said.

In fact I really wonder why this whole thread took this turn. I know that the SEACHEM Acid Buffer is not phosphate based. And I know it turns kH into CO2. I also know that this CO2 is rapidly dissipated from the tank as any dissolved CO2 is since water in it's normal state only wants to contain around 2-3 ppm.

So here's the straight talk. Either shut up or put up. I dare you to give me a link to where I have stated in this message what you claim I have stated. If not I expect a public apology soonest. And since I go around "everywhere and tell everyone" this it should not be hard to find. I have made in the neighborhood of 10,000 posts on various planted tank forums in the past couple of years so you had better get busy.

And it's really funny that this just happens to be your very first post on this forum.

 

[djlen3]

I need to say something here.
I've been involved with an assortment of Fish/Plant forums for a bunch of years.
I have read, over that time a lot of posts authored by Rex Grigg.
Rex can be blunt at times, but I don't recall him being inaccurate with regard to his advice. He is out here, IMO trying to help folks improve their skills in this hobby and ridiculous remarks like the one posted above are just plain nasty and un-called for. My bet is that you will not see a reply offering any proof of his/her claim, as asked for by Rex.

Rex, step back, take a breath, and realize that these idiots are just trying to get under your skin. Don't let it happen.

Len

 

[shalu]

I think Rex gave great advice that can save many people lots of money and headache. It is your money and you surely can spend it on some expensive water if you want to.

I had some plants showing Calcium difficiency recently so I bought a pound of CaCO3 from Gregwatson.com for $1 along with my Plantex CSM+B. It worked. But since then I found out an even cheaper source for raising GH/KH after performing some online research: Pulverized dolomitic lime (for example, at Lowe's 50LB for $1.98 ), it will provide Calcium along with Magnesium(dolomitic). Make sure it is "pulverized"(powder form), not "pellets". That two-dollar purchase will last most people a life time.

 

[shalu]

and yes, I have used baking soda before in my tank to raise KH, it does NOT cloud the water. KOI keepers often dump baking soda by the pounds into their ponds to raise KH.

 

[shalu]

yes, CaCO3 does cloud the tank TEMPORARILY. In a CO2 injected tank where ph is below 7, it dissolves fairly quickly. In my tank, I only notice the cloudiness for less than 30 minutes(I happen to like the effect A LOT, because it looks like a foggy morning in Golden Gate park in San Francisco ). and if you dose it before going to bed, you will never notice it .

 

[shalu]

by the way, if you need to get magnesium sulphate(epsom salt) separately, Walmart( or any grocery/drug store) sells it for something like 4LB for about $2. I also use it for garden plants and to treat fish bloat.

 

[Guest]

Didn't have to look too hard...

http://www.plantgeek.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1168

How did you adjust the kH?

seachem acid buffer it is design for the plant tank

It is as I feared. Another water warrior that doesn't have a basic understanding of the pH/kH/CO2 chart.

I will explain this for what seems to be the 1000th time. The use of any buffers or water additives other than bicarbonates and CO2 will invalidate the CO2 chart.

If I take a bucket of water and add acid buffer to it I'm not adding CO2. And no matter what the ending pH and kH are the chart is not valid because I DID NOT USE CO2 to lower the pH.

So my advice and you can take it or leave it bigfoot, is do start doing 20% water changes every day for 10 days. This will remove all the acid buffer from your tank. Then and only then can you really start understanding your tank. If you want to reduce the pH and kH in your tank from what is provided by your water source then you can use RO water to cut the water. But the use of acid buffers and/or peat will invalidate the CO2 chart.

Rex is also IMHO a troll because to him, there is ONE way and ONLY ONE way to do things... HIS way... God help you if you disagree with him. He talks down and disdainfully to people. It is IMHO so uncalled for and takes all the joy out of reading the forums. Especially forums that you want to have readers under 13... for all he knows I could be 12 years old and he's accusing me of being a crack addict.

 

[Guest]

Answer this. What is the CO2 level of the tank on day two? You will still have low pH, low kH and no CO2. And you have invalidated the pH/kH/CO2 chart. Just as I stated in the post.

This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community.

I can tell you are nothing but a Plant Geek Troll. I don't hang around Plant Geek anymore. This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community. you might have noticed it has been around 10 months since I made a post there.

And please tell me in that post where I said that Seachem is lying, is guilty of false advertising and spreading false information? The only lying and spreading of false information is your very first post in this forum.

I don't know if you hang around 13 year old kids much This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community. but they are way different than what most of us over 30 were like as 13 year old kids. If 13 year old kids can't handle the truth and accept a few hard knocks then they are in for a huge surprise in a few years when they enter the real world.

 

[Guest]

Answer this. What is the CO2 level of the tank on day two? You will still have low pH, low kH and no CO2. And you have invalidated the pH/kH/CO2 chart. Just as I stated in the post.

Wrong. Seachem Acid Buffer is a carbonate based buffer that turns kH into CO2. It can lower pH by lowering kH, but that actually makes for a more unstable environment when kH is lowered too much, so for that reason, Seachem recommends that Acid Buffer be used with Alkaline Buffer, which is another bicarbonate based buffer that does NOT invalidate the CO2 chart. The only other way Acid Buffer lowers pH is by letting the pH of the water reach whatever it would go to with low kH.

This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community.

If that is supposed to be a flame, it's the most retarded one I've ever read and makes no sense.

I can tell you are nothing but a Plant Geek Troll. I don't hang around Plant Geek anymore. If you were not so high on crack or busy playing with a duck you might have noticed it has been around 10 months since I made a post there.

Because you made the post 10 months ago it makes a difference how?

And please tell me in that post where I said that Seachem is lying, is guilty of false advertising and spreading false information? The only lying and spreading of false information is your very first post in this forum.

You say Seachem's Acid and Alkaline buffer invalidate the CO2 chart, Seachem says they don't. Therefore you say Seachem is wrong.

I don't know if you hang around 13 year old kids much This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community. but they are way different than what most of us over 30 were like as 13 year old kids.

I think you demonstrate very well why you shouldn't be allowed on any respectable aquarium forum.

If 13 year old kids can't handle the truth and accept a few hard knocks then they are in for a huge surprise in a few years when they enter the real world.

This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community.

The fact that you actually changed the design and layout of what you call your website to include a personal message to me (while plagurizing images from the Something Awful forums I might add)This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community..