Lymphocystis on O. Clown?

[Kurt_Nelson]

OK... here's the patient:

O. Clown bought last Wednesday, currently in QT with a cleaner shrimp bought from same tank at same time. On Friday, this whitish lump appears under his eye, right next to his mouth. No other white specks or slime covering the fish. He's swimming fine, feeding fine (mysis shrimp, blood worms, Formula 1 pellets) and doesn't seem in any distress.

Saturday, the white lump got smaller and appeared that part of it either fell off or was "cleaned" by the cleaner shrimp... although the two don't seem that friendly at this point.

Now on Monday, the lump is getting a bit bigger again.

SG is 1.024, pH 8.3-8.4, temp 76-77 deg, ammonia/nitrites 0, nitrates 10ppm. 10 gallon QT with a chunk of live rock and a Biowheel 100, fully cycled.

Is this lymphocystis? Doesn't seem like ich/velvet as there are no other indications.

Any ideas? I'm currently just taking a wait, watch, and see approach with it. It doesn't seem to be spreading,

Edit: More info...
The O.Clown is about 1" long, and was bought from my LFS. It's tankmates there all seemed healthy. It was drip acclimated coming into the QT, even though it was kind of pointless as the LFS water parameters matched mine.

Edit again!...
What do fish "scabs" look like? I'm also wondering now that I look at him again if maybe he just got some little abrasion or something during the whole netting/transfer thing and this is just how fish deal with minor cuts/scratches.

 

[roka64]

That's a tough one....here is an article on a possibility, I'll look for more, but this one deals with a whitish coloring around the mouth:
http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/columnaris.htm
If it is Lymphocystis, you will need to QT him ASAP, as it can break off and spread to other fish, generally of the same species. Keep in ming, that is a maroon clown and have cheekspines and should not be netted.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

If it is Lymphocystis, you will need to QT him ASAP, as it can break off and spread to other fish, generally of the same species.

No problem, as he's in QT already. He's going to be the first fish in my new system.

Keep in ming, that is a maroon clown and have cheekspines and should not be netted.

Not a maroon clown... just a dark picture! He/She's an Ocellaris Clown.

Thanks for the link. One thing about Lymphcystis... is the virus transmitted by water? Anyone know? Just thinking ahead to when the clown gets out of QT and into the main tank and I'm ready to QT my next addition to the tank.

 

[melosu58]

Read this also

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/viewtopic.php?t=7

Scroll down to the disease he has. Good Luck.

 

[roka64]

The viral particles in the water can go on to infect another fish of the same or closely related species. I suspect the virus can also become dormant and remain viable in sediments for years. The virus may be stored for years (for future research) by either freezing or freeze-drying the separated viral particles, infected tissues, or infected whole fish.
I got this from this site:
http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Lawler_Lymphocystis.html

 

[roka64]

Any luck?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Any luck?

Nope.

The growth has gotten a bit bigger, but is not spreading anywhere else on the fish - it's just getting a little bigger around the perimeter and a little higher. When I first noticed it, it seems like it got really big overnight then part of it sloughed off. Then it started getting bigger again - but it's not sloughing off this time.

It's still eating just fine, and seems generally content. No gasping, flashing, or anything to make me think it's in distress.

I'm tempted to try a combo of Pimafix/Melafix, but it seems that most people say it doesn't really do anything. But on the other hand, it doesn't seem like it would hurt anything either.

So... I think I'll just decide to do nothing for the time being, then reevaluate come Monday.

 

[melosu58]

You`ll eventually have to do something. It will kill your fish and infect your tank. I would start treatment now before he gets a secondary bacterial infection. Ypu`ll have to QT him.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

You`ll eventually have to do something. It will kill your fish and infect your tank. I would start treatment now before he gets a secondary bacterial infection. Ypu`ll have to QT him.

As I mentioned in my first post, he IS in quarantine - as he's been from day one as he's my first fish. He has nothing to kill but himself.

What treatment exactly would you recommend? Fungal? Lympho has no cure as I understand it...

 

[roka64]

Man, that's a bummer, being your first fish.
Per mels post:
2) Manually remove cysts
3) Daily formalin baths (5 drops per gallon), to prevent secondary infection
4) Do not return the fish to the display aquarium, until it has been cyst free for 2-3 weeks
I would also suggest soaking food in garlic extreme/selcon/zoe to try and help boost the immune system. At bare minimum, go with the garlic...

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Yeah... I read those recommendations in the "saltwater disease treatment" thread. But manually removing the cyst on a 3/4" to 1" long clown that is right underneath it's eye?!! I'm good with my hands, but not that good!

The thing that's weird is that it looked very healthy at the store, and I'd been watching it for a couple weeks. Then two days after it comes home it gets this growth. I'm guessing it must've gotten a scrape while being netted at the LFS or when I transferred it into my QT and that somehow manifested itself into this growth. Since the QT was fresh with nothing in it prior, the water couldn't have been infected with anything.

Being my first fish destined for a brand new tank, the idea of not starting out with something that might endanger the whole tank is forefront in my mind. I have to admit the idea of putting this fish out of it's misery and "starting over" has crossed my mind a couple times. But it's apparently not in any "misery" and seems to be a pretty happy camper so that option is not really an option.

 

[roka64]

Hopefully it is only a scrape. I would keep a low salinity and soak food in garlic extreme to promote a strong immune system.

 

[Fluff]

It's really hard to tell from the photo but it may be just bacterial and some time in pristine water may be all it needs. Adding a bit of melafix to the water will not hurt anything and may help speed the healing. Generally bacterial infections caused by scrapes or irritations will clear up on their own if the fish's living conditions are excellent (water, food, stress free enviroment, etc.) Otherwise, you will have to make a choice rather to treat for Lympho to see if that helps as already suggested or make the decision to humanely euthenize the fish. Hopefully it won't come to that and it's just bacterial that will clear up in time. As long as the fish is eating and acting fine, it's worth it to keep trying. To early to give up just yet.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

OK... just to update and put an ending to this thread...

It wasn't lympho, but I'm 99.9% sure it was a bacterial infection, and that it was sick when I brought it home. Being a newbie, I just didn't realize it at the time.

Right after my last post, the white spot really started getting bigger, the fish stopped eating, and it really started acting agitated and basically pretty weird. Nitrates were at 5, Ammonia/Nitrites were at 0, pH was 8.4 or so and salinity was 1.024, so water parameters weren't the issue. I finally had to put it out of it's misery as it seemed like that's the way it was going pretty quick. In doing a little post mortem exam, the "growth" looked more like a infection deep under the tissue and almost looked like it'd moved up into his eye socket. Interestingly enough, I bought this one because of it's "unique" coloring around that one eye. Almost looked like it had a black eye. Towards the end, the "unique" coloring I thought was part of his normal coloration, went away! Pretty sure he was sick from day one and the "unique" coloration was a tell tale sign.

Also, only after I got his replacement in my QT tank did I realize how a clown REALLY acts when they're happy! What funny fish! Sooo... again, I'm pretty sure he was damaged goods from the beginning, and it was just a nasty bacterial thing.

The second O.Clown just made it out of my QT and into my main tank upstairs. He's having fun exploring the currents as I type and seems to really like the move from the 10 gallon downstairs to the 46 gallon upstairs where he can actually watch us!

 

[roka64]

Man, what a bummer! Congrats on your new family member!

 

[mmarges]

Hey there.
I had the same problem. Treat him with Formalin.

My baby clown developed same white stuff under his eye on cheeks and also some on his fin and under his mouth right where the gill meets.

He's been in a small quaranteen tank for about 6 weeks now. Couldn't figure out what his illness was.

Anyway I treated with Erythramycin for 1 week, no results, Then hyposalynity (thinking might have been ick) for 3 weeks, no improvements. Then Mardel coppersafe for 2 weeks, no improvement.

Fish store recommended I treat him with Formalin 3, by Kordon, so I did. Whatever he had it's improved by 80% within first 24hours. It's day 3 now and it's almost all gone. I'll give him a few more days and then return him to my main tank.

Good Luck

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

I finally had to put it out of it's misery as it seemed like that's the way it was going pretty quick.

Plus... this post was more than a year old.

But thanks for the advice!