Male or Female? (Angelfish & Gourami)

[Spider8ait1994]

Hi all. A couple months back I got a 130 litre tank to start keeping some larger fish species than I’ve kept in the past and have added a pair of angelfish and 4 Gourami (2 Pearl Gourami, 1 flame Gourami and 1 blue Gourami)
I have a basic idea of some of the differences between males and females of these species however am having a hard time matching what I’m seeing in my fish to guides for male or female.
I know with Gourami it’s the shape of the dorsal fin (longer and more pointed for male and shorter and rounded for female) so I THINK my flame Goirami is male but I may be wrong.
Not sure about the blue Gourami and the Pearl Gourami seem to have a different dorsal fin to the guides for Goirami sexing I’ve found so I have no idea about them.
As for the Angelfish the tells to me are very subtle and I just can’t definitively tell what’s what but I THINK the black one is male and the white is female.
If anyone can take a look at some photos and help me out that would be great.

 

[Colin_T]

The angelfish are too young to tell.

The 2 dwarf gouramis (Colisa lalius) are both males. The female dwarf gourami is silver/ grey and doesn't have the bright flashy colours of the males. The female blue dwarf gouramis don't have red on the tail and are much less intense blue, and have smaller rounded doras fins.

Pearl gouramis are both females.

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You should monitor the 2 dwarf gouramis for fighting and stress. If there are lots of plants (especially floating plants) they should be ok but if there isn't much cover they could fight or stress until they die.

Dwarf gouramis (Colisa lalius) and all their colour varieties (including flame and cobalt blue) regularly carry the Gourami Iridovirus and or Fish TB. These diseases can remain dormant for months and if the fish get stressed, the Iridovirus can become active and kill any labyrinth fish (Bettas & Gouramis) in the tank. Symptoms for the Iridovirus include the fish become lethagic, not eating as much, developing small sores over its body, dying after a week or two.

Fish TB can in any fish and is highly contagious. It is caused by a slow growing bacteria in the Mycobacteria genus. It lives in the fish's organs and slowly grows and damages the organ/s. One day the fish will have organ failure (caused by the bacteria destroying the organ) and it bloats up (gets fat) overnight, stops eating, does a stringy white poop, breathes heavily, and dies within 24-48 hours of showing these symptoms.

If you get Fish TB in the tank, you will need to wait until the fish die and then disinfect the tank and all associated equipment before starting again.

If you get the Iridovirus in the tank, don't add any more labyrinth fish until you have disinfected and sterilised everything, and started the tank again with new fish.

Hopefully you won't have either of these problems but it's something you need to watch out for with dwarf gouramis.

 

[Spider8ait1994]

Ah that’s good to know about the diseases. I’d never heard of those before so I’ll definitely look out for symptoms.
Just so I know if I do see symptoms is it too late to quarantine at that stage?
As for the tank it is planted out and have some decor that can be used for hiding spots.
The black Angel and the dwarf Gourami are new additions to the tank I just got today so I am keeping an eye on them and haven’t noticed any agressive or problem behaviour from any of the fish in the tank so they all seem to be getting along alright.
About how old would you say the angels need to be for determining their sex?

 

[Andy Sager]

Ah that’s good to know about the diseases. I’d never heard of those before so I’ll definitely look out for symptoms.
Just so I know if I do see symptoms is it too late to quarantine at that stage?
As for the tank it is planted out and have some decor that can be used for hiding spots.
The black Angel and the dwarf Gourami are new additions to the tank I just got today so I am keeping an eye on them and haven’t noticed any agressive or problem behaviour from any of the fish in the tank so they all seem to be getting along alright.
About how old would you say the angels need to be for determining their sex?

Sadly, Fish TB is very difficult and gets expensive to treat so if/when the fish show signs, it's usually too late and it's better to euthanize. Certain fish species are prone to it ( i.e. rainbowfish) but any fish can get it. You also need to be careful since this is one disease that CAN be transmitted from fish to human. Make sure you don't handle the fish with your bare hands ( especially if you have cuts on them) and make sure you sanitize anything you use for the process. The Iridovirus is common among the Dwarf Gouramis and can spread to other anabantids. This is another disease that is very hard to successfully treat. I'm not sure that a 100% effective treatment has yet to be developed. It's more common in farmed gouramis out of Asia than wild caught ones but wild caught ones are hard to come by depending on where you are. Also, the flame and blue dwarfs that you have are not natural so they don't exist in the wild.
Angelfish have had many decades of breeding and interbreeding that now the genders don't always show the "typical" physical characteristics as formerly described. I've seen females with the Nuchal hump, males with the female shaped anal fin, big females mated to small males, etc. It's crazy. It's a guess at best these days. The only way to definitely tell is by seeing their breeding tubes and those are only exposed when in spawning mode. Angelfish can start breeding at 6 months old but it's better for the fish if you allow them to get about a year old before allowing them to start spawning. The eggs will be larger, making the fry a bit larger and easier to feed and keep alive.
Hope this helps.

 

[Dsudnick]

I agree with the posts above. It’s very hard to tell the sex of angels but The angelfish appear to be two young because right now they both look female.

As they get older the males tend to round out more with a huge bulge of a forehead.

 

[Andy Sager]

I agree with the posts above. It’s very hard to tell the sex of angels but The angelfish appear to be two young because right now they both look female.

As they get older the males tend to round out more with a huge bulge of a forehead.

Just an FYI, not all males get that hump. I've bred 100s of pairs of Angels in my hatcheries over the years and not all have had the hump. I've actually never seen that on wild Angels either.

 

[Colin_T]

It's too late to quarantine the fish so just monitor them for symptoms. If they show any then start a thread and we can guide you through what to do.

Angelfish generally need to be around 12 months old before you can sex them. The males get a more rounded forehead. It takes a bit of practice sexing them and even then they aren't always true to form.

To date there is no cure for the gourami iridovirus or tb

 

[Spider8ait1994]

Ok. One last question about the diseases you’ve mentioned. If the worst happens and I do encounter either of these diseases and need to disinfect the tank and contents is there any specific disinfectant you’d reccomend?
I do have F10 veterinary disinfectant concentrate that I mix up and use to clean my bearded dragon enclosures so being a veterinary disinfectant I’d imagine that would do the job and be safe for use with an aquarium setup but I figure it’s better to ask just to be safe.
Hopefully I won’t need to do any of this but I’d rather have the necessary info and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[Colin_T]

Granulated swimming pool chlorine is the best thing for disinfecting tanks. Just make sure you do it outside or have the doors and windows open because the fumes are poisonous.

Gravel, rock and ceramic ornaments can be boiled or baked and that will kill anything on them.

The tank and filter can be filled with tap water and pool chlorine added and left to circulate for an hour before flushing it out really well.

Plastic and ceramic ornaments can also be left in the tank with the pool chlorine.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'm also a fan of Chlorine. It sanitizes everything and you can see if it's working by the whitening of things like algae and any biofilm that may be on the items. I'll defer to Colin on what form you have available in Australia because here in the U.S. you can get chlorine from pool supply stores and "dollar" stores for cheap. The only caveat is that it can't contain any other perfumes or additives that may remain in the tank even after many flushes. With chlorine, I just triple the dose of dechlorinator after flushing the tank. You can also use a chlorine test kit from a pool supply store to check for any residual chlorine.