Manderin feeding w/gluttonous Gramma

[AMaintC]

I finally got a green mandarin dragonet and the LFS recommended 'trigger pods'. I followed all directions and was told the pods should last about a month. I did add them in TOTAL darkness as not to entice a feeding frenzy and left them in the dark overnight. By morning, sure enough, pods everywhere. Fast foreword about 4 hrs and not a single trace of them. I'm pretty sure my royal gramma cleaned them out. It's been three days and mandarin sure looks emaciated. Any recommendations on feeding that my gramma won't engorge on? I've looked around for brine shrimp but nobody local knows anything about them. Another LFS wanted to sell me more rock infested with an unidentified pod... Any advice? I may end up taking one of the fish back, probably the gramma, if I can't harmonize my tank.

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[54seaweed]

first I must ask how old is your tank ?
if it is less than a year old I strongly suggest bringing back the mandarin as he most likely will starve
giving the tank time to establish a good pod population
also finding a mandarin that was trained to eat frozen ,pellets,and other foods besides just pods would also be a good idea
I also recommend you read this article below

...I'd like to buy a Mandarin! | Melev's Reef

 

[AMaintC]

The tank is about 10 months old. I knew he wouldn't eat prepared food, I just didn't realize my gramma had such an appetite. I didn't think about the refugium, though I don't have time to establish one if he's starving already.

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[Dav3]

Take it back. You are clearly not ready for a mandarin.

What size tank do you have. 10 months IMO is not nearly old enough to have a WELL established self producing pod population to begin to support a mandarin.

 

[Dav3]

And when a mandarin is involved there is no way a bottle of tiger pods will last a month.
A week tops. Don't listen to advise from your lfs.

 

[AMaintC]

The health of the mandarin is definitely my priority and taking him back is most likely what's going to happen asap, I was just doing some 'fishing' for advice to see if there was anything else I could try before giving up.

I'd rather take back the gramma, but if there's really no 'quick fix' I understand that as well.

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[Dav3]

What size tank and how much live rock do you have? If not big enough and not enough rock then you would need to supplement.

Supplementing (pouring in) pods will get expensive unless you are culturing your own supply.

Likewise a refugium depending on size is no guarantee that you will have enough pods either.

 

[54seaweed]

When I got my first mandarin I struggled to keep him from starving,

I bought pods weekly , it wasn't easy it cost me almost $50. a week to feed him .

eventually I came across that article I posted , and learned a lot I than realized if I don't train him to eat other foods he would die from starvation ,

I found a small 8x8x6 plastic box I could hang inside my tank , than I placed the mandarin inside the box than started feeding 3x a day , I started with live brine shrimp he took to that almost instantly , than slowly switched to frozen mysiss shrimp ,
he started to eat that after 2 days in the box , than I tried to slowly start feeding small saltwater granules this was the hardest part of the training,
at first he wouldn't touch them than I thought soak them in garlic extract bam he hit them hard ,it takes time to train but the out come is well worth it
I also used to raised pods , brine , mysiss to keep all my fish fat but it became time consuming , and wasn't a easy task
I had my little guy over 5 years and loved him to death ,
I recently lost him to stress from a major transfer to a new tank
mandarins are a very fragile fish and need special treatment

I miss my little guy so much he had such a personality,
he always waved as you walked by the tank

My next mandarin purchase will most likely be a mated pair
they won't be introduced to main tank till they are trained to eat other foods even though I have a well established pod population ,

 

[AMaintC]

That's a very inspiring success story. I've already bought another bottle of pods which will go in tonight. I was thinking of how to isolate and train him and what you described is about what I had planned. I'm ambitious to try.

To anyone who's worried I'm making a mistake, I will keep you posted and I am absolutely concerned for his health, however, I have talked with over a dozen hobbyists in the last 24 hrs and have only had one suggestion to give up this early. I'll give it some time and see what happens. Very excited about training through.

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[54seaweed]

it will take time and patients , every mandarin has a different personality some may take to the training fast some may not , start slow not to scare the lil guy he will become trusting in you fairly fast , once you get his trust things will go a little easier for both you and him
if your not sure on something your doing don't be afraid to ask
there are several of us here on this site that went through this training method and it works
my guy took to it in about a week others took almost 2-3 weeks
keep feeding times consistent 3 or 4 times a day
these little fish are very smart
good luck with teaching him
look forward to hear a good out come
I have a step by step guide let me see if I can find it

 

[54seaweed]

I couldn't find the article I was referring to but I found another that is similar
hope it helps guide you through the training it has some good pointers,

» Mark Martin on Feeding Mandarinfish
Resources Mark Martin on Feeding Mandarinfish
Mark Martin is the Direct of Marine Ornamental Research at Blue Zoo Aquatics
Mandarinfishes are some of the most attractive fish in the hobby, but all too often people purchase them not understanding their very specific husbandry needs—especially when it comes to feeding. This week, I therefore want to talk about some tips, tricks and strategies for feeding mandarinfishes that are already weaned onto a captive diet, especially in a crowded aquarium
One approach I really like is to soak frozen or freeze-dried Cyclopeeze in RO water. Once it has soaked, then use a pipette (or even a narrow turkey baster) to place the liquefied food into the crevices of the live rock at the bottom of the tank in places where there is low flow. Because mandarinfishes are near-constant foragers, they will naturally find the trapped food and consume it without being as easily out-competed by other fishes.
Another trick is one that came to me by way of Mathew Wittenrich and Mark Levensen. Again, this approach is great for feeding mandarins in tanks where they may have lots of competition. Essentially, the food—mysids, Cyclopeeze, Blue Zoo Mix, etc.—is placed in a small jar that is then sunk in the aquarium. This will allow the mandarinfishes to forage relatively undisturbed.
These two tricks can work wonders on feeding mandarinfishes that are already weaned onto a captive diet in crowded reef tanks. If the mandarinfish is not yet weaned onto a captive diet, Matt Wittenrich suggests the following approach as published in Blue Zoo News’ species spotlight article on green mandarinfish (Synchiropus picturatus):
“Spotted mandarins (S. picturatus) are usually ready feeders and require little weaning to get their attention with frozen mysid shrimp,” he says. “Often, spotteds will pick frozen fare from the water column like a butterfly.” Green mandarinfish are somewhat more difficult to wean and require more patience on the part of the aquarist, but they are, in Wittenrich’s experience, well within the reach of the dedicated aquarist.
“The best method I have seen to wean green mandarins was put forth by Matt Pedersen,” Wittenrich says. “He puts newly acquired specimens in a breeder box, feeds them enriched live brine and slowly starts introducing frozen brine and mysids to the regime. Once the mandarins begin accepting the frozen fare, the live stuff is slowly removed from the diet.” Wittenrich feeds Piscince Energetics mysids exclusively to his mandarins. “They love it,” he says, “usually with little weaning.”
Published 22 September 2008. © Blue Zoo Aquatics

 

[carey]

It took a whole month of target feeding like every kind of frozen food to get my mandarin eating. BUT he was an ora one so he had a head start I think. I also had a refugium which helped him survive while he was being weaned onto frozen. This was done in a 29g biocube with a good amount of live rock and the tank was about 9 months old. It CAN be done, but mine started out kinda fat and since yours is looking a little thin it might not have the time it takes to wean onto prepared.

I lost my mandy a few months ago as well, after a few years of loving it to death! it didnt take to a tank transfer well at all and just died on me one day. Very sad day. I treasure the time I had him and most likely wont try another one as I dont think I will have the same luck with one.

Good luck with yours, I;d give him another week or so and if nothing then bring him back. Hopefully he isnt too far gone, once they start looking thin it usually doesnt turn out too well.

 

[Sniperhank]

I spend a ton on pods keeping my mandarin from starving. After a year, I saw him swim up into the water column with the rest of the fish and start eating mysis. Never heard of it happening before, but I always say that hunger is the best spice. Though still doing ok, I wouldn't do a mandarin again, viewing it as one of the handful of mistakes I've made in my current system as so much money spent on pods could have been some really nice coral.

 

[AMaintC]

Thank you all, this is really inspiring. I'm anxious to start the weaning process.

He's currently very active, I'm assuming that's a good sign; though again, looking a little emaciated. I put about a quarter of a pod bottle in the bottom of the tank (in a bottle with the neck facing sideways, since they swim upwards) and it took about 4-5 hrs for all the pods to vacate into the bottom area of my LR. He disappeared behind the rock during that time, so hopefully he was eating; and my gramma was none the wiser as to what was going on. I'll do it every couple of days until I get a 'weaning tank' set up.

Wish me luck!


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[AMaintC]

I promised I'd keep you all updated; so I never actually saw him eat, but I gave him frozen brine shrimp (because I couldn't get it locally and was too impatient to order them) and flakes (mixture from LFS) flavored with Kent Garlic Xtreme. For about a week it didn't seem he was eating but then the feces started piling up. I gave it another week and he was still just as spri but I never SAW him eat; but the food was slowly vanishing. So he's been repopulated for about a week now and still very spunky. I haven't added any more trigger pods or any other living pods, crustaceans, etc. and he seems to be doing well. He greets me about half the Times I come to the tank.



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[AMaintC]

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[BigRedsReefs10]

He looks pretty skinny, you should try some other foods until you actually see it eat.

 

[Gregcoyote]

If you can find those tiny live black worms anywhere, they will sometimes take those, prawn eggs and flying fish eggs available at the Chinese grocery is another option . You can also make a feeder (google it) and hatch baby brine. I tried starting a pod farm (thread still online) but had little success. They have a small gut, so they need to eat often to keep their stomachs full. They are super slow and methodical, so any wrasse or similar type will outcompete them.