Mouth fungus

[Noviceafter2yea]

My readings are 0,0,15,8.1 and 78 Fahrenheit. 20 gallon.
3 bleeding heart tetras
2 platy
1 mollie
3 cories
1 male guppie

I recently changed my substrate from river pebbles to black sand to try to minimize damage to my cories barbs.

2 of my 3 bleeding heart tetras have developed white moustaches which look very mildly fuzzy. One is worse than the other as though the other is in the beginning,stages. There are no other patches of white or fuzz on their bodies and no behavior changes.

I tried treating with fungus cure and when I didn't see any change, I switched to Pimafix. The activated carbon is removed.

I am not seeing much of an improvement. Is there anything I might be able to rub directly on their mouths (with the utmost care)? I also did a water change yesterday.

As a side note, I have never seen so much poop in the tank. Maybe it is the black sand, and the poop doesn't seem to be minimized by the filter (when the carbon is in).

Thanks.

 

[Delapool]

Ack! If it's not fungus, then it's columnaris! Can you QT those fish?

 

[Noviceafter2yea]

Ack! If it's not fungus, then it's columnaris! Can you QT those fish?

Unfortunately, only in a 1 gallon at this time. My 5 is housing unexpected fry. I am going to cycle a 20 gallon I got and will transfer the fry , but am waiting for the heater to arrive.

Is there a way I can make an impromptu QT, except how would I heat it? I have battled columnarus before. I am praying it isn't a recurrence. There is no hiding, odd behavior, decreased appetite, or any signs of it on other fish.

I did read it may not be a fungus, but a bacteria.

Do you think a fake QT would work? It wouldn't have a filter, but I can use an airstone and the heater is supposed to arrive no later than Wed. What about Furan?

I will be so bummed if I do more harm than good.

Thanks for your response btw.

 

[Delapool]

Unfortunately, only in a 1 gallon at this time. My 5 is housing unexpected fry. I am going to cycle a 20 gallon I got and will transfer the fry , but am waiting for the heater to arrive.



Is there a way I can make an impromptu QT, except how would I heat it? I have battled columnarus before. I am praying it isn't a recurrence. There is no hiding, odd behavior, decreased appetite, or any signs of it on other fish.



I did read it may not be a fungus, but a bacteria.



Do you think a fake QT would work? It wouldn't have a filter, but I can use an airstone and the heater is supposed to arrive no later than Wed. What about Furan?



I will be so bummed if I do more harm than good.



Thanks for your response btw.

If you have a clear plastic container to see fish that would do. I'd just hang a mesh bag with some DT filter media near air stone and that would do as well. Tank temp may be ok without heater but depends on if fungus or columnaris. Two fish infected suggests bacterial imo. What would unheated tank temp be do you think? How long since last columnaris infection again?

Furan-2 and kanaplex with tank temp around 76F for columnaris.

Or tetra fungas guard (furan2 + anti-fungal). {Just double check that as going off another post.}. Then get kanaplex as well. That would cover bacterial and fungal.

 

[Noviceafter2yea]

If you have a clear plastic container to see fish that would do. I'd just hang a mesh bag with some DT filter media near air stone and that would do as well. Tank temp may be ok without heater but depends on if fungus or columnaris. Two fish infected suggests bacterial imo. What would unheated tank temp be do you think? How long since last columnaris infection again?

Furan-2 and kanaplex with tank temp around 76F for columnaris.

Or tetra fungas guard (furan2 + anti-fungal). {Just double check that as going off another post.}. Then get kanaplex as well. That would cover bacterial and fungal.

The last infection was about January. It wiped out all but one of my fish which ironically, is the bleeding heart tetra NOT displaying any symptoms out of my three.

Out of total paranoia, I bought a new aquarium to make sure the columnaris didn't leave any traces behind.

My guess is the temperature would be around 68-70 sans heater. I'm in Southern California so it doesn't get too cold, but we aren't experiencing a heat wave right now.

I think I will buy a new clear container. I have tons here but cannot be sure if they haven't been cleaned with soap or sprayed with anything.

 

[Autumnsky]

Columnaris thrives in higher temps so maybe not having the heater will be positive. Big tote clean, no soap or cleaner residue, will work for a QT.

 

[Noviceafter2yea]

Columnaris thrives in higher temps so maybe not having the heater will be positive. Big tote clean, no soap or cleaner residue, will work for a QT.

Okay, I will get one first thing in the morning. How much water should I fill it with? These guys are jumpers so I want to make sure to leave enough room in the container so they don't jump out.

Should I add aquarium salt? Should I put all 3 tetras in it even though only 2 are symptomatic? Do you also recommend adding bio filter in a mesh bag to go in with the air stone?

 

[Autumnsky]

You could use the lid but drill a bunch of holes for air. Or some net and elastic to weave through the edges of the net to clamp down around the edges of the tub.

If you are willing to change water every day or 2, you can skip the filter, you could put the filter pad right in the tank as well as mentioned next to the air bubbler. Depending on the meds they can kill your BB anyway.

I think it would depend on your water if I would do very much salt, I might do just a little.

.25 teaspoons per gallon, you can add concentrate 50%, then maybe 12 hours later 50% over one day; to .50 teaspoon per gallon as it is thought it is beneficial for the fishes. Gradually add the salt dissolved in water to the main QT about a quarter each 12 hours of the concentrate of salt water. Then as you do pwc add the appropriate concentration of salt into the water to keep it consistent. Since your pH is pretty high I doubt you need too much salt. Do you happen to know your GH?

Columnaris is a gram negative bacteria, it needs medication which treats gram negative infections, if you are thinking that is the problem. The meds mentioned in the earlier post will work, Kanamycin and Furan 2, I think kill BB, and Maracyn 2, which I don't think does. You can try calling or emailing API about them, or first checking their website.

My thoughts are that you shouldn't mix types of meds without sufficient water changes and maybe carbon, and you might want to run an extra air pump to make sure they have as much oxygen as possible.

Complete each medication if you try it. Otherwise you just get antibiotic resistant surviving bacteria.

For the future, after having Columnaris I think it just comes more easily the next time. You still had one fish from before. Stressed fish, over crowding and overfeeding causing poor water condition can also be a stressor, as well as not keeping frequent pwc, a rise in temp... I am not implying you had those things or caused this. I had years no problem, then I have had it 2x in two years. The lighter version, not the one that kills everything in a few days. I also had stresses in the tank. It started with sick fish I didn't know were sick, as they looked fine. I didn't QT.

There in started the fire storm. Not doing a QT caused half my tank to die.

There is plenty of debate about doing a quarantine. I would rather do a QT forever more.

That is a awful thing for you. Keep strong and I hope you can get it sorted out and fixed soon.

 

[Delapool]

Plus 1 - hopefully just fungal but QT essential imo.

 

[Matt68005]

Autumsky was spot on. I don't think that a kanamycin + Furan combo would kill BB, but im not sure either and it is one of the best treatments for flexibacter columnaris, the other would be Oxytetracycline hcl.