My fancy goldfish are dying off one by one

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mitch0

Aquarium Advice Apprentice
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
23
My fancy goldfish seem to be dying off one by one, weeks apart, and I can't figure out why.

It starts with them appearing to be slightly bent/curved and having difficulty swimming. This quickly escalates, they become more bent over and lay at the bottom of the tank until they can no longer seem to move at all. Shortly after this they die.

This has happened to 3 out of 5 fish in my tank, across several weeks. The first one appeared to also have slightly cloudy eyes. The second had no additional symptoms that I noticed. The third had a cotton wool like substance on it's tail - this seemed to appear after the initial onset of the other symptoms.

The tank is 200L with an APS 2000EF+ filter providing 9w UV sterilisation, fitted with bioballs, active carbon, filter foams, and more recently an API Nitrazorb pouch.

The tank was set up a couple of months ago using Tetra Safe Start when the fish were added - 4 moors (2 black, 1 red/white, 1 panda) and 1 oranda.

During the first couple of weeks there was an outbreak of ick, which I treated with salt - 3 tablespoons per 20L built up over a few days. Within a week all symptoms disappeared.

A couple of weeks after this the first fish died. I stepped up my cleaning and water changes to make sure the water quality was as good as it could be.

A week or two after this the second fish became ill and died. At this point I purchased an API test kit to check the water parameters. Ammonia and nitrite were both at 0ppm, nitrate was somewhere in the region of 20ppm (it's difficult to tell exactly with API's kit due to the colours being so similar and there being big jumps in values between the colours).

Although 20ppm isn't massively high I read that fancy goldfish can be particularly sensitive to nitrate so I attempted to lower this by increasing my water changes. At the same time I also tested the tap water which seems to have somewhere around 10ppm nitrate in it. To counter this and keep them as low as possible I added some more plants to the aquarium and added API nitrazorb to my filter. This was about two weeks ago.

The other day a third fish became ill, I quarantined it in a separate tank to give it chance to rest (using 50% water from the aquarium, 50% fresh conditioned water). Within a couple of days it died.

At the time I quarantined the fish I checked the water parameters, I got 0 readings for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate (thanks to the API Nitrazorb).

Originally I suspected sensitivity to nitrate was the problem but now I'm not sure and I'm worried the remaining two fish will die as well. They currently look perfectly healthy, but so did the others until a day or so before they died.

I'm currently doing one 25% water change a week and one/two 10% changes mid week on top of this.

Is there some kind of disease attacking my fish? Should I medicate the surviving two as a precaution?

The only other problem I can see is the water temperature is quite high, it is in a conservatory and with the current heat it can get as high as 80f/27c.

Any advice would be appreciated.
 
Hi there,

I'm sorry to hear about your fish.

From what you describe, I would say that the temp. could be a large factor. 27 degrees is really quite high. Warm water can quickly become toxic, and has less dissolved oxygen, which aren't good for fancy goldfish.

My suggestions are:
- undertake frequent large water changes (I do at least 50% every day the tank water is over 25).
- move your tank to a cooler room.
- if a tank move is not possible, add a tank water cooler and install plants in the room to screen the afternoon sun.

I hope my suggestions help.

Please do keep us posted,

Roz


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Hi Roz, thank you for your reply and advice.

Initially the fish were gasping for air at the top of the tank, which points to the problem of lower dissolved oxygen levels due to the temperature. I now have air stones/pumps at either side of the tank and none of the fish appear to be doing this - would this suggest there is not an oxygen problem?

I know air stones do not directly work to increase oxygen in water but the surface agitation through the bubbles does. I just want to check if the fish not going to the surface for air suggests the oxygen levels are OK or if this is not a safe assumption to make.

I will try to ensure temperature is lower.

Unfortunately I don't have any room elsewhere in the house for the tank and I don't have the money for an aquarium cooler. I know that is a horrible thing to say when talking about the health of a pet but all the ones I have seen are a minimum of £250/$420. What I do have however is some fans attached to the aquarium pointing at the surface. My worry with these is that the evapouration may effect mineral/chemical/whatever else levels in the water but if I am doing frequent and large water changes hopefully this will be OK.

Fortunately it looks like the weather is calming down a little now that we've passed the middle of summer so that should help.

The pH is somewhere around 7.5 I believe, I will have to do a test when I get home to confirm. I know last time I checked it wasn't the completely perfect PH for goldfish but I thought trying to alter the pH and having fluctuation as a result would probably be more harmful than a slightly off but stable pH.
 
Hi there, I'm not sure whether you can assume the oxygen is perfectly ok - but it can't be at critically low levels if the fish aren't gasping, so you have done really well in addressing that :)

I couldn't afford tank coolers either - we can only do what is possible, not matter how much we love our pets.

Last summer (Jan-March 2014), when temps got up to 45-47 in my area (think of standing in a fan forced oven!), I did the following:-
- min 50% daily water changes, as already mentioned.
- in the room where the tanks are, I placed blankets and sleeping bags over the windows (in addition to keeping the blinds down).
- ran the aircon as much as poss.
- added bags of ice - but these just melted straight away.

I think the water changes and aircon were the most effective.

I have read that running fans on the water surface is effective, but I haven't tried this.

I hope my suggestions can help you a little.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice
 
Hi Matt, thanks for the suggestion - I've just looked up velvet disease and some of the symptoms match but none of the fish at the point of death had any visible spots on their skin that I could see. Is it possible for velvet to kill fish without these symptoms?

Also when I treated for what I believed was white spot a few weeks before the fish started dying it was cleared up by the addition of aquarium salt. From what I've read velvet does not respond to this treatment.

Managing to keep water temps below 25c and neither of the two remaining fish are showing any symptoms of illness, it's been 5 days since the last fish died. I'm not necessarily convinced whatever is killing them has gone away as it has been so spread out so far and seems to strike suddenly.
 
One of the two remaining fish (oranda) has started showing some behavioural symptoms and I'm worried it is getting sick. It has started sitting at the bottom of the tank and hiding in the plants, something it hadn't done previously. When it sees me (so thinks food might be coming) it comes out and swims around - it doesn't seem to have any particular difficulty doing so or have any other physical symptoms I can see as of yet. I'm worried it's health will quickly deteriorate like the others did.

The water temperature has been consistently below 25c, I'm doing 25% weekly water changes and supplementary 10-25% changes in the week on top of this (either if I clean the tank of any algae growing or want to lower the temperature a little).

I've just done some tests and the water quality seems to be good. The pH is a little more off than I originally thought but I don't think this would cause these problems?

f42xrq.jpg


pH: 8.2
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrate: 5ppm (or even slightly lower)
 
For a cooler, there is DIY stuff, get a mini fridge (about $100) and run garden hose in it and pump water throught it
 
Thanks for that - I've done some tests this morning and think you might be on to something.

1z380mx.jpg


The readings, left to right:
Tap - pH
Tap - high range pH
Aquarium - high range pH

Looks like the tap water is around 7.4 and aquarium around 8.2 (although slightly less purple than yesterday since a 25% water change).

It looks like the pH is rising in the aquarium but I'm not sure why.

I'm trying to think of everything that might effect it.

I treat the water with interpret tap safe before putting it in.

There is a lot of sunlight on the aquarium.

In side the aquarium there is sand, drift wood, quite a lot of plants, air stones.

In the filter there is filter foams, carbon, API Nitrazorb.

No idea what could be causing it to rise.

Any ideas??
 
I've done some more testing and high pH does not appear to be to do with the aquarium parameters.

I left some tap water in a glass for just over 24 hours and then tested the pH.

The day old tap water had a pH of around 8.2 - similar to the aquarium water, so it seems the pH of the water is increasing by itself.

Not sure why this is or what I can do to lower it.
 
Poor goldfish sorry to hear about this. It might be the temp they are cold water fish and so hight temps are very bad for them. However that would not explain the weird symptoms of the fish that already died. The fuzzy stuff on the tail might have been some kind of fungus. The bent over thing could be a variety of diseases so a lot of different things are possible. Try to research different illnesses with these symptoms, treat as recommended and use the process of elimination to see what's wrong. I've personally never had these problems so I wouldn't be able to help much other than give the advice above.


NatureFish
????
 
Any white stringy poo? Any red streaks on their body? And finally any fungus looking stuff on them?
Goldfish don't really "gasp" for oxygen they beg for food ad suck at the surface because their carp. I respect Roz's advice as it is sound, but if your loosing them to mortality i suspect there is some kind of parasite/bacteria present that is killing them not mere water quality. How big are they? Those smaller fancy goldfish from the petsore are very easy to kill, even with nothing wrong with them, but once youve had them for 6 months and they start to get bigger, there very HARD to kill.
Dont give up, they are the most beautiful long lived fish on the market! You can even mate them and raise the eggs, but its hard to do as any egg layer fish's fry are very small and delicate. But, Fancy goldfish are very cool and once they get bigger and bigger they are worth more money. They will live for up to 20 years and get the size of a rabbit if you have a big enough tank/pond and they don't need alot of care really either just a good Big water change every 2 weeks and cleaning because they are large fish that produce alot of waste. I love mine, everybody that comes to my house comments how beautiful they are and how nice the tank looks! im like, meh i bought them for $3 each and i just feed the **** things and top off the tank/do PWC once in awhile and everything stays perfect with them.
You don't have to have perfect water for them either. They are VERY tolerant of nitrates, somewhat tolerant of low oxygen in the water. I would not worry about such trival things with a fish that is just a few broods away from being a fish in a lake. I would just say its their small size or find out whats killing them if their are any symptoms, worrying about water quality with a goldfish is, meh, kinda silly.
 
Hi This exactly what happened to two of my Danios when i had then in a conservatory type balcony, is your water showing signs of being a bit green ie algae in the water, My danios started having problems swimming they kept swirling in circles and got a bend in their backs, i enthusnised as they stopped eating. The only way i saved my fish was to move them to a cooler area. None died once i moved them back inside my flat. I learnt a lesson at the cost of two fish deaths.
 
Danios are used to hight temperatures so you may be losing these guys quicker cause they are coldwater.If my danios couldnt hack it in a warm humid place i dont see how your goldfish will survive. A closed in area close to sunlight creates an oven like heat. I think whereever possible it would be best to try and accomdate the tank somewhere else in your home.
 
Fantails and other goldfish are quite capable of living at the temleratures you are recording. You only have to look at the temleratures in israel, for instance, where many are farmed. They are essentially warm water fish that tolerate low temperatures well.

I suspect that they may have experienced low oxygen levels at some point and possibly high ammonia in conjunction with the high temp/low oxygen and they have suffered internal damage that has steadily become worse, causing their internal organs to eventually shut down. You say they were gasping at one point before you added more aeration...... this may have been when damage was done. Its just a possibility.

A friend of mine has suffered a very similar situation to yours, but with small koi in his pond this year.

Another possibility is the ich. You say all symptoms disappeared after a week? Trust me, ich doesn't disappear in a week, just the spots have ruptured, released juvenile ich and they can re-infest and cause severe damage before you even see any more white spots. Your high temperatures may have killed the parasite off, but I wouldn't bet on it. I has suffered, losses from ich just like your situation, on more than a few occasions. Only a skin scrape and microscope would confirm the pressence of more ich.

I hope things improve for you soon
 
Ya you might just get some new ones, those little ones die easily. They can tolerate those water paramaters and those temperatures. Im sure now that your tank is "cycled" if you just got some more and kept doing PWC too keep nitrates in check that they will eventually live for you.....sometimes stress from being shipped is just too much for a fish.
As to why the ph in your tank is increasing, i don't have an answer, it should be going down not up, maybe the sand has too much silica and it is causing the PH to fluctuate....did you buy pet store sand or just get it from a construction place or garden center?
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. My fish seem to have stopped dying now although I'm still not sure what the problem was in the first place.

My water parameters are good, pretty much always 0 readings for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. pH is still a little high and fluctuates slightly with water changes as the tap water comes out lower then rises to a stable pH.

I did suspect the sand for pH rising but did some tests - put some fresh tap water in two glasses, one with sand, one without, the pH rose exactly the same in both glasses.

The one oranda is still acting a bit strange, spends a lot of time laying in the plants or on the bottom of the aquarium amongst the plants. This is the smallest of the fish. Doesn't seem to be ill and has been doing this for months now, seems to be behavioural rather than illness perhaps.
 

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