My NitrAtes are shy...

[NeonJulie]

I'm around the 14, 15 day mark of fishless cycling. My NitrItes have been sky high (3 to 30 ppm, even after 99% water change). I will probably do another total water change this even to try and get it back down to 2.

My problem is that my NitrAtes are severely stunted. I can't really figure out what happened - the first week, every day I would watch 1-2 ppm be added. Around day 6 I finally had 10 ppm. Unfortunately, the next day the dived to just 2! And then over the course of a few days, they managed to get to 5-6 ppm. And that's where they've stayed for at least 10 days.

A fishforum person has been nice enough to mail me her filter, but it hasn't arrived yet.

I'm at a loss to explain why my NitrAtes were doing well, and then what reduced the numbers, and now why they won't increase at all... it's not like they don't have enough NitrItes to feed on.

I'm afraid if I can't figure out what happened to them in the first place, something may happen again maybe after I get the filter. Where are my NitrAtes???

 

[pobdave]

What test kit are you using?

I find the best indicator of water quality is the fish themselves.That is why I consider fishless cycling,although morally correct,to be flawed.You never really know if your readings are a true representation of the water and it's params.

I have just cycled using a certain product which claimed to be ''instant''.Had I done this fishless I would still be messing around with my water.I actually stocked my tank from start and upped the bioload once confident.I know from some of the types of fish I have,sensitive types such as my clown loaches and my L-18 that had my params been off the mark then I would have suffered deaths.My readings were confusing (using AP master test kit-liquid).I was getting readings exactly the same regardless of what capacity water change I had conducted.I did test readings on my other tanks and the tap water also.Those results were what I expected.

 

[NeonJulie]

I'm using the API Master test liquid kit. I have to confess I'm having difficulty understanding the rest of your information.

 

[pobdave]

In laymans' terms...

Buy a few fish and put them in!

Get a few guppies,chances are they wil be OK,should they start gasping then take them back.

From reputable teat kits I have had readings that NO fish would have been able to survive.

Take the plunge and reject all the self righteous criticisms of params and stocking.Those people know no other way of commenting!

 

[zenkatydid]

if you are doing a fishless cycle, then there is no reason to do any water changes. the bacteria needs that night nitrIte to turn into nitrAte, so don't take it away! just let it go its course, and make sure you keep giving your bacteria ammonia to feed on and push the cycle forward.

 

[pobdave]

In my experience-fishless cycling is crap!!!
You are left uncertain.

What would you prefer?

Edit-nothing can substanstiate fishless cycling being either more humane or superior.Dont waste time or money pandering to supposed isues.

I would bet that most of the people dying to jump in here already keep a pleco in a goldfishbowl!

 

[hc8719]

to comment, i think a 99% waterchange may wipe out to many bacteria

 

[zenkatydid]

This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community. fishless cycling is not some half-baked scheme to make to buy into something, it is a proven method of cycling your tank humanely. many people still prefer to cycle with fish, and that's fine, but please don't disregard other equally as valid methods.

also "nothing can substantiate" that kicking a dog in the face hurts the dog... does that mean it's ok to do so? just because the fish cannot tell you it's in pain, does not mean it's ok to put it there.

i would advise against "buying a few fish and putting them in" with your nitrites as high as they are. just have patience, no more water changes til your ammonia and nitrites are both at zero. it shouldn't be too much longer.

 

[rich311k]

Ok folks we are discussing a fishless cycle. A well tested method of cycling a tank. Lets not get off topic here. The nitrate test is not reliable when nitrites are present. Just keep going when nitrite hit 0 you are done. No need for water changes.

 

[Fishyfanatic]

I completly agree with Rich. The Fishless method has been proven time and time again. If harsh comments continue, the violaters will be banned from the thread.

By the way Pobdave, I don't have a pleco in a goldfish bowl as you assumed.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

When doing your cycle, I completely agree with Rich. The nitrate test is not necessary til you are done cycling, as nitrites will give you false readings on the nitrate test.

 

[pobdave]

Off Topic but..''Trolling''!

If that is what yourefer to as advice other than the usual..'your tank is too small,lower the PH' then I supose Im guilty.Im offering advice based on my OWN experience NOT being a google intellectual like some who could be classed as such.

If my advice is classed as ''trolling'' based on the fact I have not stomped on the safe have of ''what are your params'' and such like then so be it.Who am I to rattle your cage?I thought the idea of this site was for fish keepers to advise each other based on experience-not to engage in an aquatic knowledge pi$$ing match.If you are that insecure withy your aquarist knowledge I suggest you actually commit to the level you seek to criticise first.

Queue much goolgling on 100g tanks!

 

[rich311k]

You were warned you have now been kicked from this topic. We like civilized people to help with our threads. I trust everyone else will keep on topic.

 

[kostasonia]

I cycled with 2 tiny danios a 29G tank and everything was ok. Then increased the bioload really slow until now. After 4 months my danios are moving up and down happy as the other fishes.

But if you are on a fishless cycle already, just forget about PWC and wait. Patience is the key. I took advantage of thinking about the design of the decoration, reading about fishes etc...

 

[NeonJulie]

to comment, i think a 99% waterchange may wipe out to many bacteria

Well considering that the water was so cloudy you couldn't see in it, this seemed to indicate so much bacteria that there wasn't room in the substrate for it all. Everything remained wet as well, and I've seen NO indication whatsoever that my NitrIte numbers had suffered... in two days they were back up to 20-30ppm. Only this time for some reason, the tank is crystal clear.

I've also heard many times that the majority of the bacteria does not live in the water.

 

[Devilishturtles]

my NitrIte numbers had suffered... in two days they were back up to 20-30ppm.

Do you mean your nitrate numbers?

Sounds like it coulda been a bacterial bloom maybe.

Bactera do not live in the water, but are surface residers. You heard correctly.

Fishless cycling is really the slow way to go. I'll say, I cycled my very first tank with fish and didn't lose a single one, did water changes a LOT, and the fish were never active...but it took forever and ever to complete. I would have rather just done it the fishless way, let it sit for 3 weeks, and be done. No need for regular testing, just sit back and relax.

I have suspicions with your test kit.... really sounds like odd results. Any chance you'll beout around a petsmart, LFS today that can test the water for you?

 

[coldmachineUK]

I managed to cycle a tank using the fishless method in 11 days. I took twice daily readings during this time, and watched my ammonia levels rise to 4ppm, before nitrItes took over, and then finally at the end of the period the nitrAtes rose and nitrites and ammonia dropped to 0.
I used two market bought shrimp, shelled, and left these in an old LFS fish bag with holes in, hung right near the filter outflow (so it pushed water through the bag and then into the tank).

Smelly, yes, but it did work. You just need to hang on in there. You may just have overdone the original source of ammonia is all, hence the very high levels of nitrIte, and this will just mean having to wait a little longer until the cycle is completed. You may want to decrease the amount of bioload creating ammonia, just a little.

On the upside it does mean that once the tank finishes its cycle, if you have cycled it with an extremely high level of ammonia and nitrIte, your filter will be packed with the beneficial bacteria!!!

 

[NeonJulie]

Ok folks we are discussing a fishless cycle. A well tested method of cycling a tank. Lets not get off topic here. The nitrate test is not reliable when nitrites are present. Just keep going when nitrite hit 0 you are done. No need for water changes.

Thank you for that interesting point, I wasn't aware the NitrAte test wasn't reliable during the NitrIte phase. That seems a viable answer, since the strange test readings occured when my NitrIte spiked.

Nothing seems to be moving forward at the moment, but I know I'm at that critical NitrIte Spike Day 10 (Day 15 total.) Hopefully the established filters will arrive today or tomorrow and help speed up the process.

I have good reasons for myself having chosen to do Fishless, though everyone around me except DH, has been trying to talk me out of it for weeks. 1) I am ordering my fish, and the bio-load has to be able to sustain the full stock from the getgo. 2) It makes perfect sense to me to "pretend" fish are in there during those first critical weeks, and having smelled ammonia every time I open the bottle, I am thankful there's nothing in that tank to subject that stuff to. 3) I am redecorating/remodeling the bathroom where it's at while I wait for the cycle to finish, which involves paint and fumes and while it's inconclusive the effect that has on fish, this way I don't even have to worry about them.

Was I hoping it would be done by now? Yeah probably, you hear people who successfully cycle in 14 days and you vow you'll do everything, temperature, KH, pH, oxygen, etc., to try and be that person, and when you go for some time without seeing any difference, or you have to explain to everyone who's observing you why you're tank is so cloudy and looks terrible when you're supposedly doing the "right" thing rather than follow the advice of the "experts" in the area... you wonder what in your particular setup worked against you. But oh well, you can't rush nature.

I've also been lax about dosing with ammonia, maybe every other day, because it just seemed like I had SO many NitrItes, but I'll continue to add some every day. This may have made my stall worse. But I guess you live and learn. At the end of the day and the cycle, I'll be glad I did. I really am not in that much of a hurry, since I still have so much left to do in that bathroom, at LEAST I don't have to worry about how the fish are doing, regular water changes, constant testing.

Hope I didn't set the cycle back too much... second guessing myself and overthinking things and not being patient enough to let things work themselves out on their own seems to get me into issues. Hopefully, that seeded media will give me some kind of a break. (That being said, when I don't feed it Ammonia, I have at least a pinch or two of fish food disentegrated in it.)

Thanks for the (other) answers.
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my NitrIte numbers had suffered... in two days they were back up to 20-30ppm.

Do you mean your nitrate numbers?

Sounds like it coulda been a bacterial bloom maybe.

Bactera do not live in the water, but are surface residers. You heard correctly.

Fishless cycling is really the slow way to go. I'll say, I cycled my very first tank with fish and didn't lose a single one, did water changes a LOT, and the fish were never active...but it took forever and ever to complete. I would have rather just done it the fishless way, let it sit for 3 weeks, and be done. No need for regular testing, just sit back and relax.

I have suspicions with your test kit.... really sounds like odd results. Any chance you'll beout around a petsmart, LFS today that can test the water for you?

No I do not mean NitrAte, I mean NitrIte. It's really off the charts - I had to call the API experts to have them interpret what "green" means. Then to confirm, I have to do my testing in diluted by 10 samples. *lol* To bring it back on the charts so I have an idea how much this is.

Thanks for the comment, but I wouldn't trust any LFS with my water, other than to check kH which I don't have a liquid test for. I hear too many "they said my water was fine" remarks!

P.S. All this has been covered in my previous thread as it was happening, but I didn't get any responses that said 'don't change the water' etc... So I went ahead with it. It's kind of weird talking about it after the fact, since I was trying to avoid making a mistake, which is why I brought the issues here to begin with. I guess it probably just got overlooked. I also discussed how long the tank had gone without ammonia feeding, and my exact dosing, because it never went above 6ppm Ammonia, which is only slightly high, but it was usually 4ppm. That doesn't really sound like "overdosing" to me, but who knows?! I was told not to worry about it unless it got to 8ppm or so.

I have reduced the amount of ammonia I'm feeding it, to 1/4 tsp, which is about half as much as I had been.
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[NeonJulie]

Well this morning I tested and was really depressed and shocked to see that my meager 5ppm NitrAtes have now completely disappeared. I am now down to NO NitrAtes at all. I'm beginning to think for whatever reason, that this isn't working for me. Looking for any help, any at all, because if things continue go backwards instead of making any forward progress... first I'm going to do a total water change, start leaving the light on longer, and see what happens... but I'm probably thinking I will have to go to a fishy cycle with another water change. Because nothing is working. I really wanted to be an advocate of this, but I'm at a total loss to explain why this is going backwards for me, rather than progressing.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Hey Julie. Did you stop dosing ammonia yet? Are your ammonia and nitrite levels still 0?