My platies are rubbing her side against leaves and driftwood

[yhbae]

Both the female and the younger one is doing this frequently, although the rest of the fishes in the tank seem OK... The only adjustment I made so far is to bring up the temperature from 77F to 79F.

Should I be cocnerned/treat them in a separate tank as if they caught ick?

 

[snapcrackler]

If they are rubbing on things, it could be ick but if your ammonia/nitrites are up then they could be just reacting to that too.

What are your water levels?

 

[yhbae]

My water level is:

- 0 ppm ammonia
- 0 ppm nitrite
- 5 ppm nitrate
- 2 KdH
- 5 GdH
- 79F (as mentioned above, normally 77F)

Fishes:
- Platies
- Harlequin Rasboras
- Panda cories
- Blue rams
- Albino Bristlenoses
- Otos

The tank is 25g, and it has completed the cycling about 3 months ago... I lost zero fish since about 2 months ago.

 

[snapcrackler]

I will yield to Allivymar or Terry on this one. I am suspecting ick or some type of parasite, as the youger one is rubbing too which sorta rules out pregnancy rubbing.

 

[yhbae]

I do have Jungle Ick Guard, AP's Quick Cure, Jungle's Fungus Eliminator and Kordon's Methylene Blue. I also have aquarium salt and a 5.5g tank that is not being used for now.

I hope I don't have to use this tank... :x

 

[snapcrackler]

Man I hope not too... for the time being you might try elevating the temps to the 80s and adding some salt:

Raise the temp to 84-86 degrees F or so

add a couple tsp per gallon of marine salt (mix it up with tank water first)

and see how they fare.

 

[yhbae]

Are you sure about the salt? I've been told that salts are bad for non-scaled fishes like otos, cories and bristlenoses which I have all...

 

[Allivymar]

Yeah, forget the salt. While I can find very little formal documentation on corys and salt, I've spoken to lots of folks with corys having bad reactions to it. Not 100% sure about the otos, but the plecs can handle salt fine actually. Its THE treatment for nitrite poisoning, even in catfish.

It does SOUND like ich, or at least a parasite of some sort. Thing is, which one? Ich can be treated with high temps, which means you can treat and not mess up the water parameters, but I believe other parasites need meds (Rid-Ich, QuickCure, ParagonII all treat a number of parasites).

Are any of the fish breathing heavily? That can also be a sign of ich; the parasites can infest the gills. My guess, is if they are breathing heavily and flashing aganst stuff in the tank, it most likely IS ich.

I wrote an article about it; you can check it out here: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/showquestion.php?faq=2&fldAuto=32

 

[jhd]

My emeralds used to do that too sometimes. But I found out that if I clean the bottom, they stopped. If only bottom dwellers do that than maybe you have food in the gravel that fish can not get into. What kind of gravel do you have? I used to have wally mart el cheapo stones and used to suck clouds of uneaten food from in between the gravel. It stopped when I mixed that with some finer gravel so that food stay on top of it and can be eaten. Also, do you vacuum underneath the rocks/ornaments? Some nasty bacteria can sit there, bottom dwellers would come in contact with it first.
I would clean bottom before dumping ich medicine in the tank.

 

[ostrichkiller]

my tiger barbs ahve done this since i got them. they only flash against one glass piece i have in the tank and for no reason at all. the rub against it till it tips over then they leave it alone till i stand it back up again. i think they just enjoy makeing me reach in a stand it back up from time to time. i noticed that my irridesent shark also was knocking thinks over like fake plants and things but i read that they will just speraticly swim fast and run into stuff... not the smartest fish in the animal kingdom i guess.

 

[yhbae]

What do you guys mean by "flash"?

I obviously prefer to treat them with higher temp if that is possible. You recomend 86F in the article. Do you see any of the species I own that may not handle this temperature for 2 weeks in a row? Obviously, none of them are listed under typical profile web sites recomending this temperature, although I know that Blue rams like higher temperature (probably even for them, 86F is too high)...

 

[snapcrackler]

Sorry about the salt idea

I hope they turn out well.

 

[yhbae]

snapcrackler, no problem with the suggestions - your intention was good!

 

[Allivymar]

Heh, you musta missed the cories snap.

Flashing is when the fish rub themselves very quickly on stuff in the tank, and sorta flip sideways at the same time so you can see their bellies. Its supposedly called flashing cause most fish's bellies are lighter and its the bright "flash" of white that gives the action its name....however I have a dirty mind *grin* and when I hear flashing I think something else. Basicaly its the same tho LOL they're briefly showing their nether bits.

As for 86F and above temps, all your fish can handle those temps for the period of time it takes to be sure ich is eradicated. Keep in mind the recommended temps are considered the average range for long periods, and not for a short period of time. I have used it a couple of times successfully, and while all the following fish did not show signs (just the clowns and the cardinals), they all were in the tank for the heat treatment: Clown loaches, angelfish, pleco, oto, cardinals and a bamboo shrimp. One thing to note, higher temps means higher metabolism for the fish (being cold blooded creatures). Don't be surprised if their activity level increases as well as their appetites!

 

[yhbae]

Heh, you musta missed the cories snap.

Flashing is when the fish rub themselves very quickly on stuff in the tank, and sorta flip sideways at the same time so you can see their bellies. Its supposedly called flashing cause most fish's bellies are lighter and its the bright "flash" of white that gives the action its name....however I have a dirty mind *grin* and when I hear flashing I think something else. Basicaly its the same tho LOL they're briefly showing their nether bits.

After I read your article more thoroughly, I realized what it was and the first thought that came into my mind about "flash" was just that...

As for 86F and above temps, all your fish can handle those temps for the period of time it takes to be sure ich is eradicated. Keep in mind the recommended temps are considered the average range for long periods, and not for a short period of time. I have used it a couple of times successfully, and while all the following fish did not show signs (just the clowns and the cardinals), they all were in the tank for the heat treatment: Clown loaches, angelfish, pleco, oto, cardinals and a bamboo shrimp. One thing to note, higher temps means higher metabolism for the fish (being cold blooded creatures). Don't be surprised if their activity level increases as well as their appetites!

Aha, that is what I wasn't sure before - when I look at the ranges of temps for each species, I thought those were the upper and lower ranges that they can tolerate for a short time and each species has a narrow temperature zone for comfortable living - thanks for the clarifications!

I've been increasing the temp slowly throughout the last 24 hours. I am now up to 83F. By this time tomorrow, I should reach 86F. How long do you recomend once I reach 86F? 2 weeks?

As suggested, I lowered the water level by about an inch - I can see much more surface disturbance and I don't see any fishes near the surface, so I'm assuming O2 level is fine...

Thanks for the help!

 

[Allivymar]

No prob I kept my temps up for 2 weeks; ich may be completely gone before then, but I hate to take chances. And I can say with assurance it worked VERY well. I haven't seen a sign of ich in the tank since. And good move on lowering the water levels; its easier then trying to stick an aerator into the tank, and works just as well if not better.

Keep us updated!

 

[yhbae]

So far so good, the temp is now at 86F (not planning to go any higher), and I don't see any fish that behaves stressed. In fact, as you have guessed, they are more active than usual... I don't see any flash happening and they are eating well... Hope this will cure this tank!

I saw the male platy flashing (man that sounds wrong! ) in another tank. I moved this one to a separate tank to give some relief to the female but unfortunately, I found out out ich after that! I increased that tank slowly to 86F as well... This tank has some 1/2 inch platy fries though - hope they will be ok as well...

 

[Allivymar]

Cool

When I did the high temp thing with the cardinals (the otos and the shrimp were also in the QT as I bought em all together), I noticed the cards were not real happy initially. I think it was due more to the infestation then the heat tho; once the parasites dropped off they were much happier. The otos were so busy sucking the algae off the tank walls I don't think they noticed LOL

I'm not sure about the fry; I *think* they should be fine, but I can't guarantee it as I don't have any personal experience or any research on them and higher temps.

 

[yhbae]

Another update - although none of the fishes behave as if they are stressed, I see ich (small dots) on all platies, blue rams (very visible on their fins) and some of the rasboras. They still eat fine and I wouldn't know if they were sick if it wasn't for the little white dots.

I can see them even on the fries...

I've increased the temperature to 87F (1 more than yesterday) just to make sure that the actual water temperature reaches at least 86F... (The stupid little LCD thermometer stuck on the glass always tells me the tank is at 84F - I suspect the temperature differencial between the tank water and the room temperature is too great to report accurate results...)

 

[Allivymar]

Yeah, I'm skeptical of the stick on thermometers. I use one of those floaty in the tank ones to double check my temps.

It'll be a number of days before the parasites encysted on the fish drop off and die; I found it took between 4-6 days or so at 88F. As long as the fish do not seem stressed, are breathing normally and are eating, I'd just hold fast