megladonsharky
Aquarium Advice Freak
I dont have any since I listen to experts
My worst fish stocking experience ever... what's yours?
- Thread starter cgcaver
- Start date
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Criptos
Aquarium Advice Activist
I've only had 1 Zebra Danio die, beacuse he was sick when I brought him home.
My only of stocking excperince can be read in my thred "My pleco disappeared..." Sure to give you a good laugh.
My only of stocking excperince can be read in my thred "My pleco disappeared..." Sure to give you a good laugh.
I tried adding a group of 5 neons to my 10 gal tank.. same death symptoms, but smaller numbers (1-2 a day). Got down to 1, got 5 more, same thing happened. Now all I have is 2 left... and they aren't getting any company of their own kind. Added a few male guppies and 3 peppered corys instead of more neons, no troubles since.
Skyrmir
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Yup, that'd = dead fish. Most likely the plants ate the ammonia spike from adding them at first, thus the nitrite spike won't happen. Sounds like a shock induced death to me. I've killed a harlequin and one of my danio's that way. I've found that once my tank is established changing 50% or more of the water is playing russian roulette with my fish. At a guess I'd have to say it's to do with the dissolved gases or lack of in your tap water.
As for WORST stocking ever, I'd say it was a mix of a betta, four goldfish and a jack dempsey in a 10 gallon tank with only a UGF and no heater... Wierdly enough they all lived for close to 2 years like that. The same couldn't be said for all thier fins, but they were alive...
talloulou
Aquarium Advice Addict
skyrmir said:
Holy Crap 8O
Fishyfanatic
Aquarium Advice Addict
Probably the 4 Bala sharks and the two common pleco's in the 29 gal tank. EEK! I don't know how they lived.
severum mama
Aquarium Advice Addict
My worst stocking experience involved a 27 gallon hex tank that my friend sold me for $20- well, you know, that part was awesome. The bad part was when I went to Petsmart to get supplies and they told me to fill the tank and run the filter for a day, and then I would be all ready to add fish. 
I added 3 mollies and 2 blue gouramis, and then a juvie blood parrot! 8O Surprisingly, the ich killed the mollies and gouramis before the parrot did. The parrot survived and currently resides in my 30 long with another parrot and some barbs. That fish is tough as nails! If only I had joined AA back then...
And for what it's worth, I couldn't keep my neons alive in my established 20 gallon tank, and my water comes out of the tap at pH 7.0. I quit trying with the neons after a while, and am really enjoying my gold pristellas and glowlights. I haven't had any problems with them, why not give them a shot?
The bad part was when I went to Petsmart to get supplies and they told me to fill the tank and run the filter for a day, and then I would be all ready to add fish. I added 3 mollies and 2 blue gouramis, and then a juvie blood parrot! 8O Surprisingly, the ich killed the mollies and gouramis before the parrot did. The parrot survived and currently resides in my 30 long with another parrot and some barbs. That fish is tough as nails! If only I had joined AA back then...And for what it's worth, I couldn't keep my neons alive in my established 20 gallon tank, and my water comes out of the tap at pH 7.0.
I quit trying with the neons after a while, and am really enjoying my gold pristellas and glowlights. I haven't had any problems with them, why not give them a shot?Hrafnkel
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I've only had one (well, two) stocking experiences so far, and both have worked out. We'll have to find out if my parrotfish ends up being Ivan the Terrible to the smaller tankmates when I set up my 55.
G
Guest
Guest
talloulou said:
yes well the sad part is that the person who started this thread doesn't realize why putting almost 100 fish in all at one time into an uncycled tank is bad.. i don't care how many plants they have!!!
anyway, my worst experience is probaby when i had my first 5 gallon hex tank i got for christmas and we went to buy fish and she said we could have up to 5 fish since it was 5 gallons. so i got a white Molly, a swordtale, a goldfish, and 2 neon tetras.and a pleco. i had let the water sit until it had algae growing in it because thats what the lady told us to do. so i brought them home and dumped them in.. they all died, except the tetras.. who lived for a nice 6 months or so. of course all i ever did was top of the water and i got to where i kept one goldfish for 4 years in it... he never grew. when i moved out when i graduated high school, i left it to my little brother and i guess thats when the fish died.
rich311k
Aquarium Advice Addict
When I was in college I had two oscars in a 30 gallon tank with a common pleco. I still don't know how those poor fish lived for 4 years.
my worst experience...? i have to say my first fish tank and having no advice from AA...but from the lfs guy 
...5gal tank with a red cap oranda....add no heater and ich and the story ended 5 days later ....
as for the neons...i have 7 (actually paid for 6) in my 29gal planted tank...i did a fishless cycle and then add the rasboras...3 weeks later the neons...the pH of the tank is 7.6 and i havent had a problem with them...i acclimated them for about 12 hours ( 8O ) before i released them into the tank...did the same thing with the ottos and so far so good...
...5gal tank with a red cap oranda....add no heater and ich and the story ended 5 days later ....as for the neons...i have 7 (actually paid for 6) in my 29gal planted tank...i did a fishless cycle and then add the rasboras...3 weeks later the neons...the pH of the tank is 7.6 and i havent had a problem with them...i acclimated them for about 12 hours ( 8O ) before i released them into the tank...did the same thing with the ottos and so far so good...
cgcaver
Aquarium Advice Regular
hahaha you really think my tank was uncycled? did you even READ my original post? hey guys...
[center:2bab30a2e9]I'm not an idiot!![/center:2bab30a2e9]
Frankly, I am REALLY dissappointed with the lack of science-based knowledge that has been presented by the AA community in this post. Some posters have been 100% legit in their thinking, and I value the input. However, to put it bluntly - many of you, who posted what you're sure I did wrong, have no idea what you're talking about. A lot of these statements are amateurish at best. I keep reading post after post of ppl who seem to be just spouting off unthought-out "sage advice" that has been passed around by fish keepers in the hobby. I see line after line of "general rule of thumb" type info being posted. Well, Im sorry, but that is just stupid. Every tank is different, and very few rules, limits, parameters, etc. are good/bad, or even apply, to ALL tanks. There are so many factors that y'all are blatantly overlooking. It also really frustrates me because it seems that a lot of ppl dont even fully absorb all the info I presented in my original post. Please, if you wanna keep taking shots at me - read it again.
1) OK, I will tend to agree, my tank (in its current setup) is "new." As in, it hasnt been like that for too long. However, what constitutes an established tank? I've always taken that to mean the Nitrogen cycling was done, and water params were stable. You add Ammo - you get Nitrates. If thats what all you ppl keep trying to slap me with, please read more carefully. I have stated (clearly, I thought) that the biofilter was fine. I tested religiously (as previously stated), often 2 times a day, and my NH4 levels NEVER went above .25ppm. Did my bacteria colony grow? Heck yeh. I had an obvious white haze to my water from the bacteria bloom. (No it was not green water, Im quite familiar with it as well - this was different) Also, the way they died very much goes against a biofilter overload issue. As I said, I've had 3-5 die daily. If there was a massive buildup of NH4, NO2, NO3, etc. then I would more than likely have had a HUGE number of them die off at relatively the same time. Did you guys even bother to consider this point?
2) That stupid rule about 1inch/gallon is the dumbest thing ever. I swear Walmart pet department employees made it up. By saying and praticing that rule, you are completely ignoring the actual bioload of the individual fish (or species). There is nothing good about that in all of fishkeepingdom. Neons, for those of you who think you know it all, have an incredibly low bioload. If you still think I did something stupid for this reason, then please read up on Neon Tetras.
"They don't have enough room to swim" "That's only half a gallon of water per fish to swim in! OH NO!!" LOL you've got to be kidding me. Allow me to blow that statement outta the water (no pun intended). A neon tetra is, on average, 1 inch long. We'll use your figure of half a gallon of water per neon. Half a gallon of water is 116 cubic inches. So basically, that neon has 116x his own body length to swim... and thats assuming everything else in the tank is solid matter LOL (which of course, it isn't). Neon's are a schooling fish that hardly swim at all, unless there are predators around, or it's feeding time. Have you ever even owned neons?
And did I seriously see someone post something that said 92 neons is 184 inches of fish? When was the last time you saw a huge school of 2" neons haha You must live on 3mile Island.
3) A whole lot of responses to this issue simply say "YAP you added too many fish too fast." LOL why is that? Does ANYONE have a LOGICAL explanation as to why? Anyone who is serious about aquariums knows it is science. So where's the science behind this claim? They looked 100% healthy when I bought them. I have a heavily planted tank. There are no predators in the tank. And my tank was fully cycled (as proven by subsequent testing). As stated 100 times before - my water conditions were heavenly, and never got remotely dangerous even after adding so many lil fish. So I'm asking you to back that statement up.
4) I declorinate my water every time I add some to the tank using some Stress Coat I have laying around.
5) I acclimated them to the tank by, over the course of an hour, adding small amounts of my tank water to their bag until it was full, then I let them swim out.
6) Yes, Neons are very weak fish. I think this is basically the answer to my problem. Perhaps helped by the water changes, which Im sure did stress them.
So really guys... instead of spouting off fishkeeping myths that have obviously (to you) lead to my folly, can we all slow down a bit and think about the actual data and scenario I've presented here? I would never be pretentious enough to call myself a "veteran" here; however, I am not a newbie. Please give me a little credit. Was what I did a great idea? Obviously, even I will agree, that it was not. But could we try to discuss what may have really happened with my Neons within certain ropes of reason? If I sound defensive, I guess I kinda am at this point; but I really do appreciate all the responses. I just wanna see if we can work with what I've tried to present as the facts.
As for what I think - I think it has been a combination of the fact that Neon's are weak fish, which wasn't helped the pH shifts due to water changes.
[center:2bab30a2e9]I'm not an idiot!![/center:2bab30a2e9]
Frankly, I am REALLY dissappointed with the lack of science-based knowledge that has been presented by the AA community in this post. Some posters have been 100% legit in their thinking, and I value the input. However, to put it bluntly - many of you, who posted what you're sure I did wrong, have no idea what you're talking about. A lot of these statements are amateurish at best. I keep reading post after post of ppl who seem to be just spouting off unthought-out "sage advice" that has been passed around by fish keepers in the hobby. I see line after line of "general rule of thumb" type info being posted. Well, Im sorry, but that is just stupid. Every tank is different, and very few rules, limits, parameters, etc. are good/bad, or even apply, to ALL tanks. There are so many factors that y'all are blatantly overlooking. It also really frustrates me because it seems that a lot of ppl dont even fully absorb all the info I presented in my original post. Please, if you wanna keep taking shots at me - read it again.
1) OK, I will tend to agree, my tank (in its current setup) is "new." As in, it hasnt been like that for too long. However, what constitutes an established tank? I've always taken that to mean the Nitrogen cycling was done, and water params were stable. You add Ammo - you get Nitrates. If thats what all you ppl keep trying to slap me with, please read more carefully. I have stated (clearly, I thought) that the biofilter was fine. I tested religiously (as previously stated), often 2 times a day, and my NH4 levels NEVER went above .25ppm. Did my bacteria colony grow? Heck yeh. I had an obvious white haze to my water from the bacteria bloom. (No it was not green water, Im quite familiar with it as well - this was different) Also, the way they died very much goes against a biofilter overload issue. As I said, I've had 3-5 die daily. If there was a massive buildup of NH4, NO2, NO3, etc. then I would more than likely have had a HUGE number of them die off at relatively the same time. Did you guys even bother to consider this point?
2) That stupid rule about 1inch/gallon is the dumbest thing ever. I swear Walmart pet department employees made it up. By saying and praticing that rule, you are completely ignoring the actual bioload of the individual fish (or species). There is nothing good about that in all of fishkeepingdom. Neons, for those of you who think you know it all, have an incredibly low bioload. If you still think I did something stupid for this reason, then please read up on Neon Tetras.
"They don't have enough room to swim" "That's only half a gallon of water per fish to swim in! OH NO!!" LOL you've got to be kidding me. Allow me to blow that statement outta the water (no pun intended). A neon tetra is, on average, 1 inch long. We'll use your figure of half a gallon of water per neon. Half a gallon of water is 116 cubic inches. So basically, that neon has 116x his own body length to swim... and thats assuming everything else in the tank is solid matter LOL (which of course, it isn't). Neon's are a schooling fish that hardly swim at all, unless there are predators around, or it's feeding time. Have you ever even owned neons?
And did I seriously see someone post something that said 92 neons is 184 inches of fish? When was the last time you saw a huge school of 2" neons haha You must live on 3mile Island.
3) A whole lot of responses to this issue simply say "YAP you added too many fish too fast." LOL why is that? Does ANYONE have a LOGICAL explanation as to why? Anyone who is serious about aquariums knows it is science. So where's the science behind this claim? They looked 100% healthy when I bought them. I have a heavily planted tank. There are no predators in the tank. And my tank was fully cycled (as proven by subsequent testing). As stated 100 times before - my water conditions were heavenly, and never got remotely dangerous even after adding so many lil fish. So I'm asking you to back that statement up.
4) I declorinate my water every time I add some to the tank using some Stress Coat I have laying around.
5) I acclimated them to the tank by, over the course of an hour, adding small amounts of my tank water to their bag until it was full, then I let them swim out.
6) Yes, Neons are very weak fish. I think this is basically the answer to my problem. Perhaps helped by the water changes, which Im sure did stress them.
So really guys... instead of spouting off fishkeeping myths that have obviously (to you) lead to my folly, can we all slow down a bit and think about the actual data and scenario I've presented here? I would never be pretentious enough to call myself a "veteran" here; however, I am not a newbie. Please give me a little credit. Was what I did a great idea? Obviously, even I will agree, that it was not. But could we try to discuss what may have really happened with my Neons within certain ropes of reason? If I sound defensive, I guess I kinda am at this point; but I really do appreciate all the responses. I just wanna see if we can work with what I've tried to present as the facts.
As for what I think - I think it has been a combination of the fact that Neon's are weak fish, which wasn't helped the pH shifts due to water changes.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
You dont think you were overstocked.. So Ill ignore that..
The PH swings alone were likely a big enough problem, but you realize that..
Neon's are not hardy fish, you got that one as well..
And adding all your fish at once is the one that your asking about, If you did a fishless cycle with ammonia it would depend on if you used a high enough ppm to emulate the presence of that many fish at once, say 5ppm NH3 to cycle the tank, this isnt normally nessisary because you would only stock a few of the fish at a time to prevent mini-cycles (if you were reading any NH3 at all and you saw a bacterial bloom that would indicate a mini-cycle).. The mini-cycle is caused by placing a higher bio-load on the filter then what was placed on it during the original cycle.
I would say that you were having a mini cycle and PH shifts that I dont know why it only killed a few of your fish at a time but that seems to be the result in your case..
The PH swings alone were likely a big enough problem, but you realize that..
Neon's are not hardy fish, you got that one as well..
And adding all your fish at once is the one that your asking about, If you did a fishless cycle with ammonia it would depend on if you used a high enough ppm to emulate the presence of that many fish at once, say 5ppm NH3 to cycle the tank, this isnt normally nessisary because you would only stock a few of the fish at a time to prevent mini-cycles (if you were reading any NH3 at all and you saw a bacterial bloom that would indicate a mini-cycle).. The mini-cycle is caused by placing a higher bio-load on the filter then what was placed on it during the original cycle.
I would say that you were having a mini cycle and PH shifts that I dont know why it only killed a few of your fish at a time but that seems to be the result in your case..
G
Guest
Guest
you say you tested your water and it was fine.. you say you had a bacterial bloom, but i just want to know what exactly you used to cycle your tank? did you add ammonia? Because of course, a tank with no ammonia source would test perfect...
thats what im confused about.. you say you tested your water but you never say that you used something to cycle it with.
And this link http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1097
states that neon tetras can get up to 2" of course that is the "jumbo neon tetra" but if you don't know what kind you got.. i thought regular neons got up to 1.5"
I am one to base off the facts.. i do not take anyones word for anything... i always ask for articles/facts to back up what they have told me, and i usually research the answers. You can ask Greenmagi that, we had an argument over how to treat ich, if salt was actually needed and i finally found an article that proved it wasn't.. but thats beside the point
I do agree that you can push the 1" per gallon rule.. as i do myself.. and i guess if you only had the neon tetras since they school then i guess having just 100 neons isn't quite as bad as having 10neons, 10blackskirts, 10corys, 10rasobras.. etc... I just see in my head a very cramped tank with unhappy fish.
Anyway, my main question is i want to know what exactly you did to cycle your tank.. maybe like greenmagi said, you had a cycled tank, but all the neons made the bioload go higher than your bacterial colony /plants could handle and thatsa what killed some of them off.
thats what im confused about.. you say you tested your water but you never say that you used something to cycle it with.
And this link http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1097
states that neon tetras can get up to 2" of course that is the "jumbo neon tetra" but if you don't know what kind you got.. i thought regular neons got up to 1.5"
I am one to base off the facts.. i do not take anyones word for anything... i always ask for articles/facts to back up what they have told me, and i usually research the answers. You can ask Greenmagi that, we had an argument over how to treat ich, if salt was actually needed and i finally found an article that proved it wasn't.. but thats beside the point
I do agree that you can push the 1" per gallon rule.. as i do myself.. and i guess if you only had the neon tetras since they school then i guess having just 100 neons isn't quite as bad as having 10neons, 10blackskirts, 10corys, 10rasobras.. etc... I just see in my head a very cramped tank with unhappy fish.
Anyway, my main question is i want to know what exactly you did to cycle your tank.. maybe like greenmagi said, you had a cycled tank, but all the neons made the bioload go higher than your bacterial colony /plants could handle and thatsa what killed some of them off.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
sizes are in cm from tip to tailfin not including the talefin...
the neon tetra
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10691
the green neon tetra
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12394
the cardinal tetra
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=8195
fishbase.org has the most accurate information. its just tough to use.. liveaquaria.com can be a little on the conservative side (big so you dont overstock)
the neon tetra
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=10691
the green neon tetra
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=12394
the cardinal tetra
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=8195
fishbase.org has the most accurate information. its just tough to use.. liveaquaria.com can be a little on the conservative side (big so you dont overstock)
G
Guest
Guest
oh your links don't work ,but i was browsing the site and some only get like 2.0 cm and some get 2" i guess it depends on the type you get, but when you go the fish store its just "neon tetra" so you don't really know what kind you got do you???
G
Guest
Guest
by the way i do know that there are 2.5 cm in an inch and i found one that said they get 4.0cm, which would be about an inch and a half, not 2"
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=57973
http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=57973
cplawrence
Aquarium Advice Freak
cgcaver:
I was curious about the comment you made about an Amano tank, so I did some searching and found this link:
http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/amano/
Aside from being an interesting page, in defense of your final bioload, he had set up a 58 gallon tank and after establishing the aquascaping
"Mr. Amano said the next steps would be:
*keep the temperature at 22ºC during the first week, then raise to 25ºC.
*do not add any CO2 for the first week
*allow the plants 2-3 days to recover
*in two months, begin adding liquid fertilizer
*after first week, add cleaner fish: (10 ottocinclus, 20-30 caridina japonica shrimp)
*after one month add main fish: (100 cardinal tetras) "
By the way, did you ever take any pictures of the tank. I would love to see it.
I was curious about the comment you made about an Amano tank, so I did some searching and found this link:
http://www.aquariumhobbyist.com/discus/amano/
Aside from being an interesting page, in defense of your final bioload, he had set up a 58 gallon tank and after establishing the aquascaping
"Mr. Amano said the next steps would be:
*keep the temperature at 22ºC during the first week, then raise to 25ºC.
*do not add any CO2 for the first week
*allow the plants 2-3 days to recover
*in two months, begin adding liquid fertilizer
*after first week, add cleaner fish: (10 ottocinclus, 20-30 caridina japonica shrimp)
*after one month add main fish: (100 cardinal tetras) "
By the way, did you ever take any pictures of the tank. I would love to see it.
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