Mystery illness - Any ideas what this is?

[Katlan]

We've been treating our fish for 5 weeks now for what was originally thought to be Ich. When it became clear it wasn't we switched to treating for Velvet, but it doesn't appear to be that either. We're stumped and so is our normally very knowledgeable local fish store.

It looks like Ich initially, but when the fish are close to death it more closely resembles Velvet but without the golden or green tinges.

Over the period of the last 5 weeks they have been treated with everything we can think of:

First thing was heat.
Second thing was Formalin/Formaldehyde and Malachite Green
Third thing was salt baths
Fourth thing was salt in the tank
Fifth things was copper sulphate

Through all of that not one of the white spots have come off the fish. They just continue to multiply and in the last 2 days fish have started to pass away with 3 dead as of this morning.

Any thoughts or advice would be great. At this point I'm exhausted and all out of ideas.

 

[brennae]

Have you looked into columnaris? It gets worse with heat. To treat cool the tank down and use Kanaplex and Furan 2. Salt also creates an inhospitable environment.

It would help us to known what size tank, type of fish, water parameters, filtration etc.
Pics really help as well.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Katlan]

Brenna, thanks so much. I had looked into Columnaris but I wasn't convinced that was it because it looked different and the salt treatment should have worked on it. But I might have to re-think that.

It's a 100 gallon tank with 8 Clown loaches.

It has 2 x Eheim 2217 filters and two air stones. It's bare bottom while being treated but normally has pale gravel.

Water parameters state 0 ammonia 0 nitrites and 5 nitrates but given how much medication has gone through the tank I'm not banking on any of that being accurate so when I do water changes and gravel cleans at the moment I just add in some Ammo Lock in case.

I've added quite a few picture here of the disease in different stages Sick Loaches - Album on Imgur

Thank you!

 

[coralbandit]

Without pics or knowing how you installed the meds it is hard to say.

 

[Delapool]

That looks like ich to me? Did anything seem to work (or slow it down?)

 

[PoppaRyno]

Im going to say cholumnaris. Not 100% on that. But Kanaplex and furan 2 are going to be your best bet if it is in fact cholumnaris. It can easily be mistaken for ich.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Aquarium Advice mobile app

 

[Delapool]

I might be on my own here

For the OP - can you pick if it is bacterial or parasites? Anything seen besides the spots? Was there any flashing?

 

[brennae]

If it's columnaris salt won't cure it. Salt only creates an inhospitable environment. Only the 2 meds suggested will knock it out

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[coralbandit]

Thats ich IMO!
I'll give it a 99% for me.
So now that your clowns have survived ich too long don't be scared with meds!
Kordon rid ich with M.green and formalin like u said you used.
Now use it daily!
Vacuum the substrate daily and replace meds.
IMO if you don't see the color from the MG then the med is spent and you need to add more!!
You kill the ich in less then 7 days(noticeably) if you just get enough meds in the tank.

KNOW HE ENEMY!!
Read this link;
Ich | The Skeptical Aquarist
Sk more questions buit I'm 99% on ich and kordon rid ich plus(not herbal) will work better then anything else!
I have 11 clown loaches 10-15 years old.

 

[Delapool]

I was going to suggest this (but it has a few assumptions)


First up it's for ich treatment (so need diagnosis confirmed but wanted to test the idea out). Just an idea.


Also I'm assuming that the previous treatment plan didn't have a fatal flaw somewhere. Just a check in case. Things like was the tank high in organic load (eg substrate stirred up) so the MG/F wasn't as effective or forgot to take carbon out (been there!). Also with heat to check there were no cold spots and tank temp was at least 86F. Salt - well just checking it was sea salt (NaCl) not epsom or some other salt. Duration and method of treatments used would be useful.


I'm assuming all good and the OP and LFS have a really tricky case of ich or something like it.


Sooo, I was going to suggest medicated metronidazole fish food which is said to be effective against white spot and should work from inside the fish on the white spot on the fish (I think, I'm told there is a paper on this but have never been able to find it).


Metronidazole; by SeaChem, API, More


Also (since I'm assuming this is a tricky case), I'd use salt and triple sulpha if the fish are having troubles with the MG/F. Triple sulpha will also work on white spot however I'm told it is slow acting (I assume metro would also then be slow-acting). One problem is that I suspect metro and triple sulpha may be doing the same function and therefor could interfere with each other. Don't know. Either one though normally I find very safe.


Aquarium Medications Part 2 | Antibiotic & Antimicrobial Treatments


If the fish are doing ok, I'd go with the medicated metro and MG/F dosing. The MG/F dosing is mainly what I'm used to here and I find once the fish adjust to it, fairly safe(ish). It would also be faster then trying heat.


So bit of a ramble but some thoughts. Really just ideas.


Longest I've seen an ich spot stay is maybe 10 days (at least 5 and 10 if I assume it was there from the start). That was at 86F and using MG/F so 5 weeks seems something is going on that isn't normal for sure.

 

[Katlan]

Thank you all so much. Unfortunately overnight we've lost all remaining fish. My best bet until then would have been Ich but a few hours before we lost them all they almost started to look like they had dents all over them. And I've never seen that with Ich before.

Devastated to lose them all. We had a little feeder fish in the tank that accidentally got in the bag when we bought our smallest loaches home ages ago. My husband named him Snack and he's been a tank favourite ever since. Honestly, I absolutely adored my loaches but it broke my heart to lose Snack.

I'm not sure if we'll start over. I'm scared of something like this happening again. There were a few suggestions you made of meds we hadn't tried though. The only other symptoms they had was flashing like crazy. I'd wanted to try a quinine based medication in case it was Columnaris but I couldn't find anything here in Aus that had it.

Anyway, thank you all again. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply.

 

[coralbandit]

Sorry your fish didn't make it.

 

[Delapool]

The flashing is suggestive but idk. Sad news on your loss. Could the dents be from scale loss as ich detaches?

Never seen quinine meds in Australia. Not even sure if they can be bought from overseas to be honest.

 

[brennae]

I'm sorry you lost all your fish
Something similar happened in one of my tanks. You just learn from it and move on. Whether you have fish again only you can decide but it's all part of the cycle of life.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Aquarium Advice mobile app