Mystery illness?!

[HoneyBea]

Hey fish fam,

Ive had these guys slowly changing over the last year, at first i was told it was just their breeding stars but now people seem baffled when i show them photos! My smaller Pond Pug has massive bicep-looking fins, and recently the spots have spread everywhere.
Can anyone figure out what is going on with them? Ive tried:
-Ichonex
-Vertonex
-General cure
-Regular water changes (everything is fine except sliightly high nitrite levels)

They seem ok, they do come up to the surface and gasp for air every now and then, not sure how normal that is

Ive called in fish doctor who did scrapings and looked under microscope (i dodnt get the list for what though) and he said he couldnt find any fungus or bacterial issues, he said it seems to be toughened skin rather than something that scrapes off! He said he’s never seen anything like it! Also my local fish/aquarium guys said theyd never seen it either (they were the ones who advised me to try veryonex and general cure)

I keep no plants in the tank, just monstera and golden pothos roots as any leafy plants seem to deteriorate quite quickly in the past. I brought them into a tank last September when temperatures in my pond outside dropped to -1°C, theyve been in a tank ever since, but this started in the pond.

Video can be seen here:
https://youtu.be/wk2x0UKnNeQ


Thanks!

 

[Aiken Drum]

Sorry. Only just spotted this need site approval.

It doesnt look like anything ive ever seen either, your vet has ruled out some options. Could be tumours, but not anything ive ever seen before. Could it be a heavy accumulation of lice?

There are members better at diagnosis than me, so hopefully they have seen something similar and can help out.

 

[Andy Sager]

This is definitely a stumper.
The good news is that your vet ruled out Bacterial or Fungal issues. The thing with your goldfish is they are a manmade creation over centuries ago and because of that, there may have been some genetic anomaly that has created this disfigurement. So let me ask: Have you tried to touch these areas to feel if they are hard like stone or squishy like a blister? When the vet did a scraping, was there any blood from the scraping? Is there a lot of calcium in your water? Is it only the one fish or are other fish in the tank/pond showing signs of this as well?

 

[Colin_T]

Hi and welcome to the forum

This is cool and interesting, at least to me

It could be a virus or hormonal. You brought the fish indoors from an ice pond and that would have caused them to go into breeding condition. The rapid rate that they went into breeding condition might have screwed up their body and their hormones have gone overboard. However, you said it started while they were in the pond.

How long did they have it in the pond?
How bad was it in the pond?
How much has it changed since you brought them indoors?

-----------------

They seem to be having a few issues with too much current in the tank. Fantail (double tail) goldfish aren't strong swimmers and need calmer water or at least an area where they can sit and not get blown around by the filter.

Goldfish need lots of plant matter in their diet and live aquatic plants are regularly eaten by them. They should have access to plants to help their digestion and immune system. You can grow Duckweed outdoors in tubs and bring some in each week for the fish. Duckweed is a small floating plant that can grow rapidly and a couple of containers outdoors should be able to provide the fish with ample plant matter.

One of the fish appears to have a slight issue with its buoyancy. This is usually caused by too much dry food and not enough plant matter or live/ frozen food. You can get frozen brineshrimp, daphnia, bloodworms and mysis shrimp form most pet shops. Just keep it in a freezer and break a block off every day or two and add it to the tank. You can also feed them raw/ cooked prawn/ shrimp. Just defrost one and remove the head, shell and gut (thin black tube in body) and throw these bits away. Use a pair of scissors to cut the remaining prawn tail into small pieces and offer a few bits at a time. Let the fish eat as much as they want.

 

[HoneyBea]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

It definitely looks more like tumours than lice, and it keeps getting worse by the day! It really started flaring up about a month ago- til then it was just on the smaller fish but now its on both, and they seem agitated to me (but everyone tells me Im being dramatic)

I havent touched them, vet said it felt hard, like calloused skin, and no blood came when they got scraped.

Is calcium something that gets checked with a general water test? Last week everything seemed relatively normal apparently.

The little one had it in the pond for about a year before I brought them in, but it wasnt anywhere near as bad as it is now. Now they both have it.

And yes youre right, they seem to have buoyancy issues, I fed them peas last week, but maybe Ill do it again. I bought bloodworms for them today so Ill switch to that and more greens!

Even in the last 24 hours this has gotten much worse, the bigger one has a spot that seems to have scratched and looks a bit red, and Im so worried the little one wont be able to swim, i dont know hooow he’s still flapping them biceps!!!

Im just really worried theyre stressed or in pain, Im not sure what else to do at this point!

My poor babes!

 

[Aiken Drum]

Your water company will be able to tell you how much calcium there is in the water coming out of the tap. There are calcium tests you can use to see how much calcium there is in your aquarium water, these tests are commonly done on reef aquarium. More commonly a test for general hardness is done, GH is magnesium and calcium combined, but a high GH is indicative of high calcium.

Most people would know if they have hard water coming out of their taps because it causes limescale build up on appliances like kettles. Limescale is the build up of calcium left behind when hard water evaporates. If you have lots of calcium in the water you could get limescale build up around the surface of the water in your aquarium.

Personally, i would ask the vet to surgically remove whatever it is if the vet thinks thats possible.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Just out of interest. New members often post these queries across a number of forums hoping to increase the chances of getting a favourable response. Did you ask anywhere else?

Given its not something weve not seen before i would be really interested seeing what other people say.

 

[HoneyBea]

I havent yet- I wasnt sure where else to post it! Ill have a look for other forums and places and let you know if someone knows whats up.

 

[Andy Sager]

I've sent a pic of this to a buddy in Canada with European connections to see if he or they have seen this before. I can't find anything online or in my books that match or even closely match what is happening here.
My original thought is calcium excretion on the fins ( the white dots on the wen are typical breeding spots) but that should have been a hard deposit not one that would be described as a calloused skin.
I'm not familiar with the Monstera plant so a quick look up brought up this:" Is Monstera toxic to fish? Monstera do contain calcium oxalate crystals, which are toxic BUT this shouldn't pause a risk to your fish if: You do any pruning away from the aquarium so sap can't drip into it." which brings me back to possible calcium related excretions. Considering that Goldfish need a lot of vegetable matter in their diet, is it possible the fish have been nibbling on the roots? Also, what are the actual numbers you get when you do your water testing in the pond and tank? I'm more interested in Ph and GH and Calcium.

 

[Colin_T]

Add some salt and drop the temperature, then see what happens.

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for 2 weeks. If there's no improvement after 2 weeks, stop using salt. If there is an improvement, then keep using salt for a couple more weeks and post more pictures.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.