Need advise on getting a viable set up going.

[Michaels226]

Hi,

My daughter received a 20 gallon Top Fin starter tank with accessories. We started the tank according to the directions included with the package. We let the tank filter for 48 hours then added 4 neon tetras. Within a couple of hours, all four were dead.

I should have tested the water prior to putting the fish in but didn't think about it.

Using test strips, this is the result...

Nitrate 0
Nitrite 0
total hardness 150
Total Alkalinity 300
pH between 8 and 8.5

Water temperature is a constant 76 degrees

Where do I begin and what do I need to do from here?

Thanks!

Mike

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Welcome to AA!
First thing you need to do is learn about cycling.
Guide to Starting a Freshwater Aquarium

 

[derail]

Welcome to the form!
Agreeing with Mumma, you'll definitely want to read up on cycling (that whole 48 hr thing isn't necessarily true). If you have a 'mature' tank you can use that filter media. There are some great articles on this site about cycling and I won't waste space here going in depth about it.
Next, you'll also want to do some research about the fish you're ultimately planning to keep (don't worry, we've all run into some trouble keeping fish; I kept comet goldfish in a 5g -_-), so you can be sure to replicate the environment they appreciate, or rather find fish that will appreciate your natural water.

I'm going to bet that the hardness of the water was a bit much. If memory serves, neon tetras prefer softer water, and your water is about as crunchy as mine lol. Also, the ph is a bit basic for their preference (6.5-7.5ish), so most likely they could have perished from ph shock. You'll want to read up on acclimating fish as well since you'll never want to add the water from the bag to your tank water.

With that water, I'm going to personally suggest trying some guppies, platy's or molly's as they like the harder, alkaline water. Good luck and sorry to hear about the loss

 

[Michaels226]

Welcome to the form!
Agreeing with Mumma, you'll definitely want to read up on cycling (that whole 48 hr thing isn't necessarily true). If you have a 'mature' tank you can use that filter media. There are some great articles on this site about cycling and I won't waste space here going in depth about it.
Next, you'll also want to do some research about the fish you're ultimately planning to keep (don't worry, we've all run into some trouble keeping fish; I kept comet goldfish in a 5g -_-), so you can be sure to replicate the environment they appreciate, or rather find fish that will appreciate your natural water.

I'm going to bet that the hardness of the water was a bit much. If memory serves, neon tetras prefer softer water, and your water is about as crunchy as mine lol. Also, the ph is a bit basic for their preference (6.5-7.5ish), so most likely they could have perished from ph shock. You'll want to read up on acclimating fish as well since you'll never want to add the water from the bag to your tank water.

With that water, I'm going to personally suggest trying some guppies, platy's or molly's as they like the harder, alkaline water. Good luck and sorry to hear about the loss

Thank you. Do you suggest fishless cycling in this instance or going with the fish in method?

Also, I do have a water filter here that takes just about everything out of it. When I last tested the filtered water, it was as null as you can get. I'm wondering if I should replace the water in the tank with the filtered water.

In reading the article provided by Mumma (thanks!), it's left me wondering which direction I should go from here. I'm in a position where I could easily drain the tank and start over if that would work.

Thanks again for the advice. It is helping!

Mike

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Fish in or fishless, it's up to you. Fish in does require a bit more dedication. It requires more water changes. It's best to use your tap water. It contains vital minerals that keep pH stable and fish and plants healthy. Most fish can adjust to different pH and hardness I have neons in pH 7.8-8 no problem. Did you use a conditioner.?

 

[Michaels226]

Yeah, I did use a conditioner to the rated specifications on the package. Here is my dilemma. The fish my daughter wants are things like tetras, and such. If I keep the tank as is and go with a fish in cycling with guppies or mollies, will that prohibit me from putting in fish like the tetras later? Or do I need to do the slow acclimation and then they'll be okay?

Mike

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Yeah, I did use a conditioner to the rated specifications on the package. Here is my dilemma. The fish my daughter wants are things like tetras, and such. If I keep the tank as is and go with a fish in cycling with guppies or mollies, will that prohibit me from putting in fish like the tetras later? Or do I need to do the slow acclimation and then they'll be okay?

Mike

It's best to cycle with a fish you plan to keep in the future. if you acclimate them slowly (look up drip acclimating on YouTube) they should adjust fine to your water. See if you can get fish from breeders or LFS in your area that have the same water conditions. The fish will be already use to the water. I keep different tetras and rasboras in hard, higher pH water without issue.

 

[derail]

I concur with mumma about acclimation. I do have a school of 6 neon and 3 glowlight tetras in my water, but proper acclimation is key (I've found my tetras usually cause an ich outbreak.

 

[Mumma.of.two]

^ That's why you need good quarantine practices.

 

[derail]

Thank you. Do you suggest fishless cycling in this instance or going with the fish in method?

Also, I do have a water filter here that takes just about everything out of it. When I last tested the filtered water, it was as null as you can get. I'm wondering if I should replace the water in the tank with the filtered water.

In reading the article provided by Mumma (thanks!), it's left me wondering which direction I should go from here. I'm in a position where I could easily drain the tank and start over if that would work.

Thanks again for the advice. It is helping!

Mike

You could use the (ultimately distilled it sounds like) water, but I'd stick with tap and treat it. There are great hard water fishes (if you can find flagfish, florida natives I believe) these are gorgeous killifishes. With fish-in cycling, I would use mollys because of how hardy they are, but as mumma said, you should do a fish-in cycle with your intended fish. Neons are a bit too frail for this IME.

Barbs are good fish and slightly hardier than neons, and can mingle with platys, mollys and swordtails well. Don't recommend guppies with them since barbs can be fin nippers.

 

[Coursair]

You might also consider using 1/2 Tap and 1/2 Filtered and see what that tests out as.
Neons also like live plants and hiding places. A bare new tank is also very stressful for them. A dark background and dark gravel or sand will help them color up the best and show off. I've cycled using Harlequin Rasboras and they get along with Neons.

You could try adding a couple of Java Ferns, they'll grow under almost any light and you can just tie them to rocks, decor or driftwood. If you decide you want to try plants we can help you with that.

Consider buying an API Master Freshwater Test Kit. Amazon has them fairly cheap. You will be doing a lot of testing and the strips aren't very accurate.

 

[Michaels226]

Thanks for all the advice everyone. I'm going to get the master test kit and test my water options before making a decision. That'll be first thing this morning. Once that's done, I'll figure out how I'm going to proceed. I'll be asking a LOT more questions.

Thanks again for all the pointers. This is not my forte by any stretch. But I will get through it.

Mike

 

[derail]

Great to hear, we still be curious so please keep updated!

 

[Michaels226]

Ok... So, I took a chance and got three black skirt tetras which were recommended by a local friend who unbeknownst to me, is in to both freshwater and saltwater aquariums. He came over and we drip acclimated the trio and set them loose in the tank. They are doing well and seem to be establishing dominance or something right now. They had a small feed about 3 hours after being put in the tank.

Cross your fingers!!!

Mike

 

[derail]

Sounds great, black skirt tetras are fantasticly beautiful in a shoal, hopefully you'll get some more, 3-5 more, black skirt (aka black widow) tetras like schools of 6-8 at least and feel more comfortable in these numbers.
Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Coursair]

Black Skirts can be nippy. They are typically hardy, but adding more gradually will help diffuse aggression. They get up to 2.4".
More info http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/tetrafish/blackskirttetra.php

 

[Michaels226]

Will they attack one another? One of the tetras has what looks like a bite out of his fin. It wasn't there yesterday. The largest tetra is acting very dominate.

 

[derail]

Coursair linked a good page of info there. Yeah skirt tetras get nippy, especially when conditions aren't optimum, also get stressed. I would highly urge you to acquire more for a school as this should help a ton

 

[Mumma.of.two]

This is a new tank in the beginnings if a fish in cycle. The school can wait IMO.

 

[derail]

This is a new tank in the beginnings if a fish in cycle. The school can wait IMO.

Agreed, I'll elaborate...when the tank can handle it a school will be great