Need Help - 46G Bowfront / New to Planted Tanks

[Adam C.]

Hello everyone my name is Adam and I am new to planted tanks but not new to keeping fish. I'm trying to grow plants in my 46g Bowfront. I've started off with a sand substrate and DIY root tabs (Osmocote Plus in gel caps) also I have purchased the entire line of Flourish Products including Flourish Advance and Excel. I start the tank about 4mths ago and am doing ok. Equipment is a Penn Plax Cascade 700 filter, Beamswork DA Pent 36". I have no real PAR readings for the light but maybe you can help me out to try and figure out what plants I can try. The light has 100 x 0.5w LEDs, 86 x 6500k and 16x actinic blue at 5000 Lumans. I'm trying to get away from the Java Fern and Anubias that I currently have and would like to have something​ of a carpet type plant along with some type of red plant to add contrast. I am not and will not be using pressurized CO² so I know my options will be limited. Any advice on plants, dosing or anything else would be greatly appreciated. I'm currently fighting diatoms and a clear/white looking slime that gets kinda stringy. I have no idea what that is but hopefully it will clear up on its own. I have all the API liquid test except phosphate but I've ordered it and it should be here in a week or so along with Flourish Excel. I test my water every other day and adjust nitrates with water changes as needed to keep my nitrates as close to 20ppm as possible. Also my water is very soft pH 6.8-7, dkh 2-3° dgh 5-6°

 

[dcutl002]

Look into Microsword, Dwarf Sag, or Cryptocoryne Parva, That Beamswork might even grow dwarf Hair grass. For a red plant, look for Rotala. Rotala likes strong light, low nitrates to turn red.

 

[Adam C.]

Thank you very much dcutl002. I will look into those. The 46g is 20in deep and the light sits 3in above the glass top and you think that I could still possibly grow high light plants? If you had to guess on a PAR reading at let's say 20in what do you think it would be? I know that is I hard question to ask put just an educated guess. Also without CO² other than Excel, if it ever gets here been waiting a month....grrr, what can I realistically expect? I had no idea that that light was strong enough for what you are talking about. Thanks again!

 

[Bert2oo1]

Thank you very much dcutl002. I will look into those. The 46g is 20in deep and the light sits 3in above the glass top and you think that I could still possibly grow high light plants? If you had to guess on a PAR reading at let's say 20in what do you think it would be? I know that is I hard question to ask put just an educated guess. Also without CO² other than Excel, if it ever gets here been waiting a month....grrr, what can I realistically expect? I had no idea that that light was strong enough for what you are talking about. Thanks again!

It's abit of trial and error to be honest. Just buy a few plants a see what grows and what doesn't. U will soon get an idea Don't even think about high light plants without pressurised, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Adam C.]

It's abit of trial and error to be honest. Just buy a few plants a see what grows and what doesn't. U will soon get an idea Don't even think about high light plants without pressurised, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Hey Bert and for the reply. That's kinda what I was thinking. I'm sure that I will one day break down and add pressurized CO² but since I'm new to planted tanks I figured I'd better not jump into the deep end just yet. Like I said I will be using Seachem's Flourish products, do you have any tips on using the ferts? Like what I can dose I little extra of without​ causing problems. I do big water changes every week as it is cause I'm kinda overstocked will 6 Congo, 8 Rummynose, 8 Cardinals, 8 Emperor Tetra and 6 Peppered Cory. Oh and a baby 2" BN Pleco and 2 nerite snails...Lol just a little overstocked. I probably won't be using too much of the nitrogen fert. My filter has a whole tray full of Matrix and Fluval Bio Rings so my BB is keeping up without any problems. Any advice would be appreciated. Plants to try or not to try? Any dosing tips? Anything that might save me a headache down the road?

 

[dcutl002]

Thank you very much dcutl002. I will look into those. The 46g is 20in deep and the light sits 3in above the glass top and you think that I could still possibly grow high light plants? If you had to guess on a PAR reading at let's say 20in what do you think it would be? I know that is I hard question to ask put just an educated guess. Also without CO² other than Excel, if it ever gets here been waiting a month....grrr, what can I realistically expect? I had no idea that that light was strong enough for what you are talking about. Thanks again!

Have you seen the PAR values link for the Beamswork PENT? If not, I can look for it. In your original post Adam you were looking for carpeting plants without CO2...that would be LOW-MED light. Not low to medium, but low-medium light. That Beamswork PENT will do it I think, but you will have to be careful and not create an algae farm,...so it may be necessary to raise the light unless that fixture can dim. I dunno, I have Finnex. I did some snooping for plants that you may consider for your tank. These are just some that I like.
1. Bubephalandra - tie to rock or wood
2. Cryptocorynes - I love these.
3. Hygrophila Corymbosa - nice tall plant
4. Marsilea Hirsuta - good option for low light carpet
5. Ceratopteris Thalictroides - delicate leaves, nice look, easy grower
6. Didiplis Diandra - nice plant - needs CO2
7. Echinodorus - find these pretty much everywhere
8. Ludwigia - beautiful plant, can be grown without CO2
9. Rotala Rotundifolia
10. Blyxa Japonica - grassy looking plant

 

[Bert2oo1]

Hey Bert and for the reply. That's kinda what I was thinking. I'm sure that I will one day break down and add pressurized CO² but since I'm new to planted tanks I figured I'd better not jump into the deep end just yet. Like I said I will be using Seachem's Flourish products, do you have any tips on using the ferts? Like what I can dose I little extra of without​ causing problems. I do big water changes every week as it is cause I'm kinda overstocked will 6 Congo, 8 Rummynose, 8 Cardinals, 8 Emperor Tetra and 6 Peppered Cory. Oh and a baby 2" BN Pleco and 2 nerite snails...Lol just a little overstocked. I probably won't be using too much of the nitrogen fert. My filter has a whole tray full of Matrix and Fluval Bio Rings so my BB is keeping up without any problems. Any advice would be appreciated. Plants to try or not to try? Any dosing tips? Anything that might save me a headache down the road?

Just dose to recommended for all the seachem line.
Flourish
Flourish excel
Flourish trace
Flourish iron.

U can double dose excel without any dramas and it may keep the algae down to begin with.

Make sure u have nice flow so all plants sway.
All plants mentioned above are great starters.
A few beginners (non scientific names)
Java fern of all types
Anubias of all types
Mosses of most types
Hygrophila as mentioned above.

Carpets are a very slow process without co2. Remember the golden rule. Your better off getting a good co2 system before a good light

 

[Adam C.]

dcutl002 I have not seen the par values for the 36" Beamswork DA Pent if you have that info that would be awesome and appreciated. I have some Hygrophilia Corymbosa I do believe on the left side of my tank. I also have Java Ferns and Anubias. I was looking for something a little more challenging. That stuff will grow anywhere...Lol I appreciate the info and will look into the plants that you'll have suggested. I never heard of that rule before but I guess it's too late for that since I had to get the new light when my old T8 fixture took a crap on me after 12 years. I've found conflicting information about nitrates to phosphate ratio. I've found both 5:1 and 10:1 what ratio go you keep in your tanks? Isn't that Hygrophilia Corymbosa on the left behind the Anubias and in front of the rock?

 

[dcutl002]

Yes, that does look like Hygrophila Corymbosa on the left. As far as fertilizing, I just use root tabs, liquid fertilizer, and fish mulm. My plants look OK to me. I am not an expert aquascaper by any means, but I do have healthy plants and fish. I'll try to post a picture.

 

[Adam C.]

Yes, that does look like Hygrophila Corymbosa on the left. As far as fertilizing, I just use root tabs, liquid fertilizer, and fish mulm. My plants look OK to me. I am not an expert aquascaper by any means, but I do have healthy plants and fish. I'll try to post a picture.

Thanks for the confirmation. Your​ tank looks awesome BTW and all I'm trying to do is grow some plants that are not the idiot proof like Java Fern/Moss or Anubias. I had that Hygrophilia for 3 months and it was barely surviving until a month ago I added some DIY root tabs and within the same week it took off. It was literally a inch tall and had no roots. 3 weeks later it is 8" tall and the top leaves are 3-4" long. I noticed yesterday that a couple of the new leaves are really thin and have some holes in them. Any idea what is causing that? You should be able to see what I'm talking about in the 2nd pic. Do you think it could be Hygrophilia Polysperma instead of Corymbosa?

 

[dcutl002]

Adam, I have to admit that it is hard for me to tell the difference.

 

[Adam C.]

Adam, I have to admit that it is hard for me to tell the difference.

Yeah I was looking on Google at the two different types and I'm not 100% sure but I'm leaning towards the Hygrophila Polysperma. I don't guess it really matters they both are have the same needs for growth. If I could just figure out what is causing those holes in the leaves. Any idea what might be causing that?

 

[dcutl002]

Do you have snails or a Pleco?

 

[Adam C.]

Do you have snails or a Pleco?

Yeah I have 5 nerites and a BN Pleco but they have been in quarantine for the last 2 weeks. What does carbon deficiency look like? I know it's not potassium cause the holes would be tiny pin holes plus I does potassium every other day. These are the things I'm going to have to learn. How to look at a plant and tell what it needs.

 

[dcutl002]

Nutritional Deficiencies:
Calcium - Twisted and/or stunted new growth
Iron - Young leaves light in color, old leaves are normal
Nitrogen - Upper leaves are pale, lower leaves are yellow, leaves die prematurely
Potassium - yellow edge/spots
CO2 - Leaves whitish in color
Manganese - yellow spotting or holes in leaves
Phosphate - leaves darker than normal
Magnesium - Leaves yellow, but veins are still green

 

[Delapool]

I have both those hygros and find them very potassium hungry. Sometimes I think I'm dosing potassium just for those as the java fern, etc always looks fine.

With twisting I've added calcium - maybe it helped. I've found extra potassium always helps, calcium may help (could be different tap water here though).

As above on just trying plants and see what works.

Injected CO2 is a little more complicated and way expensive initially but once set up, pretty much should just hum along and will make a large difference.

 

[Bert2oo1]

I have both those hygros and find them very potassium hungry. Sometimes I think I'm dosing potassium just for those as the java fern, etc always looks fine.

With twisting I've added calcium - maybe it helped. I've found extra potassium always helps, calcium may help (could be different tap water here though).

As above on just trying plants and see what works.

Injected CO2 is a little more complicated and way expensive initially but once set up, pretty much should just hum along and will make a large difference.

How hard are u dosing the potassium for them dela? I have a similar issue with my hygro compact and blue stricta. Both have holes and are ripping. I dose a fair whack of potassium tho. I dose 3.8g 3x a week of kno3 on top of my kno3 and kh2po4. (In a 60g) I would have thought that would be enough lol

 

[Caliban07]

I'm reading this as we speak. Started it last night but fell asleep (ah Friday night 30+)

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/fertilizing/32421-too-much-potassium.html#/topics/32421

There's an experiment there that I've not got round to reading yet.

Calcium is mentioned funnily enough.

 

[flchamp89]

Thats a good thread...heres what I got from it.

1. It wasnt mentioned but all plants are not created equal. I buy hundreds of terrestrial plants a month. Like any living thing some are weaker than others. And just dont respond to ideal environments.
2. We (aquarists) need to learn more and focus on hard vs soft plant species. We dont keep guppies in 6.5. I dont think java fern grows consistently well in liquid rock.
3. Value of stable co2 ppm for flora and fauna. We do all sorts of activities on our tanks based on timing to keep things stable. If co2 is on hour before lights on and off hour before lights off. What percentage of the photoperiod is truly at the so called magical 30ppm. As we get to bigger tanks this becomes even more problematic. This is my first tank ever with co2 so im a rookie. But I run it 24/7 from best I can tell slightly above 30ppm. What role does overall plant mass have in running gas 24/7?

 

[Caliban07]

Thats a good thread...heres what I got from it.

1. It wasnt mentioned but all plants are not created equal. I buy hundreds of terrestrial plants a month. Like any living thing some are weaker than others. And just dont respond to ideal environments.
2. We (aquarists) need to learn more and focus on hard vs soft plant species. We dont keep guppies in 6.5. I dont think java fern grows consistently well in liquid rock.
3. Value of stable co2 ppm for flora and fauna. We do all sorts of activities on our tanks based on timing to keep things stable. If co2 is on hour before lights on and off hour before lights off. What percentage of the photoperiod is truly at the so called magical 30ppm. As we get to bigger tanks this becomes even more problematic. This is my first tank ever with co2 so im a rookie. But I run it 24/7 from best I can tell slightly above 30ppm. What role does overall plant mass have in running gas 24/7?

The thing with co2 is is that a lot of these guys involved in these threads are very experienced and have been using co2 for a long time. Some of there plants grow fine yet others are not. The methods we have and they used are getting pretty easy to nail down now. Can it really be THAT hard to saturate the water column with gas? All you have to do is turn it up. A lot of these people are gassing their fish as a result. Plants must respond before fish are affected or that just wouldn't make sense.

Here's another thread I found which has brought me to this point.

I wasn't going to share until I'd tested it but here it is. I'm going to make up a batch of this stuff soon as the urea arrives.

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/for-dan-spezial-n-nitrogen-fertilizer.14594/

In this thread the Germans are also concerned about high levels of K+. As always Mr.Barr is not.