Need some serious help with lighting and plants

[Rivercats]

I learned that it is better to get an order that you know will fit, then once it's in you can place a second order. Also remember you have to space plants properly and leave alittle room around each plant group as they will grow, fill in, and take up a lot more space. Best to start out with less then add as needed.

The two I wouldn't use in such a small tank are the Giant Hairgrass. Amazon Compacta, and the Green Cabomba (because in a small tank you don't want two of the same species with identical leaf shape).

From your list this is what I would start with:

1 bunch Cambomba Furcata
2 bunches Ludwigia narrowleaf due to it small stem size
(plant 2 stems per hole)
1 Mermaid weed (it can be a picky plant so may or may not work)
(also similar in leaf shape to Cabomba so don't plant them close to each other)
1 Blood Stargrass
1 bunch Bacopa
3 or 5 Blyxa Japonica
2 bunches Rotala Wallichii because the stems are so thin you need a lot
(I plant these with 2 stems per hole) (also likes soft water-low kh and gh)
1 Vesuvius to be used as an accent plant
1 bunch of Rotala Macrandra for another stem plant with both color and
different leaf shape
1 crypt wendtii red or bronze

As for midground plants all of these plants can be used front, mid, or background because you can trim stem plants to the size you want them to be from short to tall. Plus the Blyxa needs to be used more towards the front and the crypt wendtii needs to be mid as they get pretty big when happy and not moved around a lot. Mine get around 15" tall with as large a spread. I only have one left in my 220 due to size and about every 4 months I trim off about 1/2 or more of it's leaves to keep it's size down. Remember plants won't stay the nice cute size they arrive in... lol! I personally wouldn't order any more plants this time than the list above.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Ok. Getting ready to place my order today. I am odering the list that Rivercats gave me above.
Going to draw out my planting plan and post it, hopefully it will look ok. Any pointers or suggestions on it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks all!

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Here is my rough plan for planting. I plan on putting a couple of clay pots in there, one as a cave for my GBR.
All plants ordered today

 

[Rivercats]

The needleleaf ludwigia will get lost in the back due to its very delicate small size. It's best used up front and kept trimmed down where you can see and appreciate it's delicateness. The Cabomba would do best in that spot because it tends to be leggy in the lower stem and nice, full, and colorful in the upper stem. Using it in the back with a fuller nicer stem plant in front to hide the bottoms is best. So....

I'd put the Cabomba where the Needleleaf is.
The Needleleaf where the Mermaid weed is.
The Mermaid weed where the Bacopa is.
The Bacopa where the Cabomba is.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Thanks! I totally trust your 2 cents, your tank is amazing, and my plant growing skills are pretty lacking
I will rearrange as suggested.
Super excited! I am going to get my background painted and all that other good stuff. Test kits arrive tomorrow, PPS Pro should be here Monday.
Question.....I have naturally hard water here in Utah, with a PH of about 8.0 out of the tap. Should I consider using a mixture of RO and tap water? I dont want to use chemicals or addetives to change PH, etc, but I know my plants would benefit from a softer water/PH mix than my straight tap provides.........

 

[Rivercats]

That's what I did in the 220 until all the peat in the organic soil began softening the water naturally. I still only do top offs with RO. The Rotala Wallichii won't like that hard of water and the Macrandra will be about the same. If you do go RO I'd suggest getting a little unit as it is way cheaper and more convenient in the long run. This is the unit I've used for a couple years and love it because it's small and can't be used then put away. I have 2 gallon storage containers with handles which work great. I have the Pro-100

portable countertop reverse osmosis drinking water system - remove fluoride, chemicals, pharmaceuticals, prescription drugs and more

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Thanks, I iwill look into ordering one of these. For now, I may just have to get the water from my lfs, or the Walmart machine.
Do I need to add anything to it if I am mixing it with Tap? Probably will mix 50/50 and see what that does to my gh/kh and ph.
I am planning to use the little bit of Eco complete I have, and then Floramax for my substrate. WIll this have any effect on my water? Should I get some potting soil, and then cap with the floramax?
I am also not opposed to using some peat in my filter, just not sure where to get it and go about putting it in the filter, lol. Since I am not using any driftwood, I won't have any tannins to help lower ph.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Also,
I plan on using my exisiting already established AC 50 HOB until I purchase a cansiter for this tank. I am going to put my WCMM's in the planted tank once I get it up and going, but probably not for the first week or two so I can get the water mixture and numbers fairly stable. Don't want to put them in on day 1, and end up killing them due to some wild ph swings or something, lol.
Do I need to add some sort of ammonia source to the tank once it is up and running while it is fishless? I don't want to kill the bb in the filter with nothing to feed it. Will the plants produce enough needed to keep the filter cycled?

 

[Rivercats]

Thanks, I iwill look into ordering one of these. For now, I may just have to get the water from my lfs, or the Walmart machine.
Do I need to add anything to it if I am mixing it with Tap? Probably will mix 50/50 and see what that does to my gh/kh and ph.
I am planning to use the little bit of Eco complete I have, and then Floramax for my substrate. WIll this have any effect on my water? Should I get some potting soil, and then cap with the floramax?
I am also not opposed to using some peat in my filter, just not sure where to get it and go about putting it in the filter, lol. Since I am not using any driftwood, I won't have any tannins to help lower ph.

If your tank isn't set up yet you could do a dirted tank but it will be alittle more work in the first 3-4 weeks. I don't think Floramax would help. If you go dirted you need to get Organic Potting Soil. Most people use Miracle Grow Organic Potting Soil/Mix but I use Just Natural Organic Potting Soil from Lowes. You need an 1-1/2" of dirt with an 1-1/2 cap. I have dirt capped with Eco.

The problem IMO with peat in a filter is that it has to be replaced about once a month or sooner. You'd be better off using RO/tap mix.

 

[Rivercats]

Also,
I plan on using my exisiting already established AC 50 HOB until I purchase a cansiter for this tank. I am going to put my WCMM's in the planted tank once I get it up and going, but probably not for the first week or two so I can get the water mixture and numbers fairly stable. Don't want to put them in on day 1, and end up killing them due to some wild ph swings or something, lol.
Do I need to add some sort of ammonia source to the tank once it is up and running while it is fishless? I don't want to kill the bb in the filter with nothing to feed it. Will the plants produce enough needed to keep the filter cycled?

If you plant the tank right away you don't need to add ammonia. Plus if you plant heavily, about 80% of the substrate, you can add a few fish and you'll cycle pretty fast and not have the huge spikes as the plants use the ammonia and nitrates up. Then when you add the seeded filter you should be cycled in no time. The fish will be fine during this.

Also when you start using RO to tap I'd do 25% RO/75% tap for the first couple of weeks. See where your Kh, Gh, and Ph are. Then you can slowly increase the amount of RO to tap to get to your desired level. I measure Kh and Gh and rarely measure Ph. A Kh and Gh of 4 is perfect in a planted tank. There is just enough calcium and magnesium in that amount for the plants but is low enough that your water will be fairly soft. My Kh is 4 and my Gh is 5.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Ok. The tank is still bare, so I will get some organic potting soil, and I just need to make sure it has nothing added into it right? Do I need to rinse the soil or just put it in, pack it or leave it kinda loose?
Can I cap with the floramax? I only have a little eco, which I will use, but I have 2 bags of floramax, so if that is ok to cap the soil with, thats what Id like to use.

I will skip the peat and just go with RO/ tap mix. Since its only a 25g tank, I think I can easily manage that.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Oh, and I know I have probably said thank you a ton on this thread, but Janis, really, thank you so much! You have been so great and helpful to me. I have learned so much from you already, and I truly appreciate al the time you have given me with all of my questions.
You are a total rockstar!

 

[Rivercats]

Ok. The tank is still bare, so I will get some organic potting soil, and I just need to make sure it has nothing added into it right? Do I need to rinse the soil or just put it in, pack it or leave it kinda loose?
Can I cap with the floramax? I only have a little eco, which I will use, but I have 2 bags of floramax, so if that is ok to cap the soil with, thats what Id like to use.

I will skip the peat and just go with RO/ tap mix. Since its only a 25g tank, I think I can easily manage that.

Add the organic soil then moisten it well. Next use your hand to compact the soil really good to push any air pockets out. Then put your cap on. Floramax is fine. Be sure to save some Floramax for touchups as needed. Put a plate or bowl on the substrate and very slowly let the tank fill. Turn on your filter and wait a day. The next day you can drain the tank 50%, plant, then refill the tank. With Miracle Grow Organic Potting Soil you don't have too much tannins so planting the next day is fine. Now the Just Natural I use leaches tons and tons of tannins so I actually had to do a huge water change daily for 7 days. Then I planted on day 8. So a lot will depend on what brand organic potting soil you get. When using dirt I strongly suggest only running lights 6 hours for the first 2 or maybe even 3 months as there is a lot of excess nutrients leaching from the soil. Also try planting at least 80% of the substrate to help with this. Use water sprite, wisteria, and other fast growing stem plants. Then 2-3 times a day you want to take something like a BBQ meat fork and poke around the substrate to release any gas pockets that form from the organic soil breaking down. You'll only need to do this 3 or 4 weeks.

Glad I can help!

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Awesome! Bought Organic Miracle Grow today, hope this is the right stuff. Also bought distilled water, since I hear those machines at the store rarely get a good filter change. will be investing in an RO machine soon

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Also, got my test kits last night. Tested my tap water today.
Kh = 6
Gh = 8
Phosphates = 0
Ph = 8 to 8.2

I want to get my Kh and Gh down to 4-5, right? Will the RO/tap mix help accomplish that?

 

[Rivercats]

I like a Kh and Gh of 4. It's low enough for both the R. Wallichii and Macrandra.

You need to up your phosphate. Since your getting some colored plants IMO you need to run your phosphate level at 1.5-2.0ppm.

As long as it was the Organic Miracle Grow Potting Soil/Mix then that's right.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Do the PPS Pro ferts help with adding phospates or should I get something for that? Seachem makes a liquid phosphate additive..........

 

[MyanRan]

Your Macro bottle contains Potassium and Phosphorus. It'll be all you need.

 

[Rivercats]

Be sure to mix your nitrates in one bottle, your phosphates and potassium in one bottle, and your micro's in one bottle. This allows you to better dose what you tank needs to keep your levels right. Also add 5ml Excel for every 250ml of solution in each bottle to keep mold from forming in the solution.

 

[Kimlafeiet]

Cool, thanks. I should be getting it all in the mail tomorrow. Im sure I will probably have more questions.