New cold water tank advice

[nataliedd]

Hi relatively new to the forum having started a freshwater tank a few months back. We're thinking of getting a second tank for fancy goldfish. Wanted to research before we buy. (Not from lfs as I can't believe they are allowed to see goldfish in bowls!) Anyway 1st question, what would be the minimum tank size advised for 2 fancy goldfish? 2nd question anybody have a biorb? My husband likes them but I'm not sure cos they have mixed reviews. Ta in advance. Nat

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[nataliedd]

Oops predictive text error. ...sell goldfish (not see)

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[treemanone2003]

At least 20 (preferably 30) for the first and 10 for each additional is general take on stocking. They can grow quite large and are serious poop factories so excellent filtration and husbandry is essential.


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[em1981ma]

Yeah 30 us gallon tank minimum for 2 fancies.

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[TigerFusion]

Agree with 20-30 for first and 10 gallons for each additional.

Make sure you have filters that circulate about 10x the numer of gallons in tank:
Ex. 40 gallon tank requires approx. 400 gallons per hour flow of filtration.

 

[em1981ma]

Biorb am I right in thinking are like modern goldfish bowls but larger. I would avoid if this is correct. Fancies do better in long tanks as it has more surface area bigger the area more oxygen they get. Also they need swimming space and 2 fancies need 30gallons minimum. They are social so keep 2 minimum

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[nataliedd]

Agree with 20-30 for first and 10 gallons for each additional.

Make sure you have filters that circulate about 10x the numer of gallons in tank:
Ex. 40 gallon tank requires approx. 400 gallons per hour flow of filtration.

Iv never heard of this, sorry still relatively new. So how do I check this out? Just by asking lfs when I buy the tank and filter?

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[Fishanatic]

Iv never heard of this, sorry still relatively new. So how do I check this out? Just by asking lfs when I buy the tank and filter?

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Filters have a certain flow in gallons per hour. Most of the time it will be written on the box. Mininum youd want to get for a 2 goldie tank is 264gph and optimal is something aroud 400 as said. You can find some cheap canister filters online such as sunsuns's which go on average for 70$ for a 350gph ish flow. Canister filters are external filters with 3 to 5 stages of filtration.

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

 

[treemanone2003]

Iv never heard of this, sorry still relatively new. So how do I check this out? Just by asking lfs when I buy the tank and filter?

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I wouldn't rely on the LFS. Chances are they know less than you think. They're just there in most cases to make you spend your hard earned cash.

As for stocking, I'd read http://aquarium-fish.liveaquaria.co...shwaterfish&isort=score&method=and&ts=results

And as for filtration, here's the 10x's info http://www.kokosgoldfish.com/tensteps.html




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[TigerFusion]

Thank you Fishanatic & Treemanone2003, for answering the GPH question!

I have found that Aquaclear by Fluval makes some High GPH Filters and are very easy to maintain for a Hang on Back Style... I have 2 Aquaclear 50's (Which are "Rated" at 200 GPH each) on my 30 gallon breeder, which houses 2 Comets and 12 Zebra/Leopard Danios.

My 75 gallon has a Fluval 406 & Marineland Emperor 400 (combined GPH is about 750). This tank houses 2 Shubunkin, 8 Boesemani Rainbowfish, 2 Gold Dojo Loach and 12 Golden White Cloud Mountain Minnow.

I get all of my Information from Forums like this and other Goldfish Specific websites. I RARELY rely on the word of LFS Staff. They usually, but not always, are Very uninformed and most often have Coldwater/Subtropical fish housed in Tropical Temperature water with all the rest. Some stores have most of their tanks hooked through the same filtration system... One sick tank = ALL Sick Fish!!

 

[Fishanatic]

Thank you Fishanatic & Treemanone2003, for answering the GPH question!

I have found that Aquaclear by Fluval makes some High GPH Filters and are very easy to maintain for a Hang on Back Style... I have 2 Aquaclear 50's (Which are "Rated" at 200 GPH each) on my 30 gallon breeder, which houses 2 Comets and 12 Zebra/Leopard Danios.

My 75 gallon has a Fluval 406 & Marineland Emperor 400 (combined GPH is about 750). This tank houses 2 Shubunkin, 8 Boesemani Rainbowfish, 2 Gold Dojo Loach and 12 Golden White Cloud Mountain Minnow.

I get all of my Information from Forums like this and other Goldfish Specific websites. I RARELY rely on the word of LFS Staff. They usually, but not always, are Very uninformed and most often have Coldwater/Subtropical fish housed in Tropical Temperature water with all the rest. Some stores have most of their tanks hooked through the same filtration system... One sick tank = ALL Sick Fish!!

No problem and those filters are pretty robust, especially the 406 which ive had a good experience with. Also, HoB are much simpler to maintain but they offer less in terms of raw filtration capibilities like for example I would be able to put 3 stages of floss and coarse material polishing pads ceramic rings and biomax in a canister for optimal filtration but for an HoB I would only be able to stock so much. And yeah it is kind of sad to see some fish stores do that but my lfs and another exotic fish store i really like usually stock their goldies at colder temperatures than the tropical fish. But what is unfortunate is that my lfs that is about 5 minutes away from my house always seem to slack around with caring for their fish. Anyways, for your 30gal breeder, I feel your comets might not have the swimming space they need to thrive. Have you ever considered rehousing the comets and adding fantails? Just a suggestion Good luck!

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

 

[TigerFusion]

No problem and those filters are pretty robust, especially the 406 which ive had a good experience with. Also, HoB are much simpler to maintain but they offer less in terms of raw filtration capibilities like for example I would be able to put 3 stages of floss and coarse material polishing pads ceramic rings and biomax in a canister for optimal filtration but for an HoB I would only be able to stock so much. And yeah it is kind of sad to see some fish stores do that but my lfs and another exotic fish store i really like usually stock their goldies at colder temperatures than the tropical fish. But what is unfortunate is that my lfs that is about 5 minutes away from my house always seem to slack around with caring for their fish. Anyways, for your 30gal breeder, I feel your comets might not have the swimming space they need to thrive. Have you ever considered rehousing the comets and adding fantails? Just a suggestion Good luck!

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

I totally agree!! I am planning on doing a tank swap soon...
My 75 will soon house all 4 Goldfish and the 2 Dojo Loach.
My 30 Breeder will house Danios, Rainbows and WCMM

My 30 gallon breeder was an upgrade from a 10 gallon hospital tank for one of the Comet, which was torn up by an Agressive Gourami (my daughter's friend did not do any research when buying fish, so I offered when I had an empty 10 gallon to nurse it back to health) he is now ready to join the Shubunkins)

I also would like to sell my Marineland Emperor 400 and get a second Fluval 406. From bottom to top, I have the Biomax filter pad, 2 baskets of Biomax. Mesh media bags of Seachem Seagel on top of the 2nd basket of Biomax. The top bin has polishing pad with pouches of Purigen on top. I Love the 406 and having 2 would make buying Media Easier.

 

[Fishanatic]

I totally agree!! I am planning on doing a tank swap soon...
My 75 will soon house all 4 Goldfish and the 2 Dojo Loach.
My 30 Breeder will house Danios, Rainbows and WCMM

My 30 gallon breeder was an upgrade from a 10 gallon hospital tank for one of the Comet, which was torn up by an Agressive Gourami (my daughter's friend did not do any research when buying fish, so I offered when I had an empty 10 gallon to nurse it back to health) he is now ready to join the Shubunkins)

I also would like to sell my Marineland Emperor 400 and get a second Fluval 406. From bottom to top, I have the Biomax filter pad, 2 baskets of Biomax. Mesh media bags of Seachem Seagel on top of the 2nd basket of Biomax. The top bin has polishing pad with pouches of Purigen on top. I Love the 406 and having 2 would make buying Media Easier.

If you would be able to, get a used fx5 which should be around the same cost of a 406. I can assure that the fx5 is well worth the money if you find it on CraigsList. As for your shubunkins, do they have trouble getting food from the comets? Its not uncommon to seperate the commets and fantails due to the much faster speed of comets.

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

 

[TigerFusion]

The Emperor 400 carbon pads are expensive to replace (and most carbon alone does not last more than about a month, if that). However, I did find a handy DIY, where you slit the top of the pad and empty out the old carbon and pour in fresh, then rinse in tank water. But I still like the Biological Ceramic rings over the Bio-Wheel, and look forward to not hearing the hum and Waterfall from the HOB. It will also have a cleaner look without the Huge Box on the back of the tank

 

[Fishanatic]

The Emperor 400 carbon pads are expensive to replace (and most carbon alone does not last more than about a month, if that). However, I did find a handy DIY, where you slit the top of the pad and empty out the old carbon and pour in fresh, then rinse in tank water. But I still like the Biological Ceramic rings over the Bio-Wheel, and look forward to not hearing the hum and Waterfall from the HOB.

Ive never been a fan of carbon. Its quite useless unless you have to remove any medication or toxins from water. Its impossible to know when its saturated so if it prematurely saturates, it will leach every toxin its got back in the water. My advice?: try to stay away from carbon in both HoBs and canisters. You could try bio balls.

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

 

[TigerFusion]

Totally on the same page

Ive never been a fan of carbon. Its quite useless unless you have to remove any medication or toxins from water. Its impossible to know when its saturated so if it prematurely saturates, it will leach every toxin its got back in the water. My advice?: try to stay away from carbon in both HoBs and canisters. You could try bio balls.

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

I have been reading that about carbon lately. I had switched to Seachem Seagel, which is their Matrix Carbon and PhosGuard combined. They claim the PhosGuard will absorb anything the Carbon Leaches as the Carbon becomes saturated which ups the life to 3 months... Again, their Claim. I did take out one level of carbon and loaded a second level with Biomax rings. The Seagel and Purigen are just a thin layer on top of 2 baskets as a clearity/chemical boost. But now that the second level of Bio rings have matured, I believe I could eliminate the carbon and maybe stay with PhosGuard and Purigen for help with the added Ammonia and Nitrates from the Goldies.

 

[Fishanatic]

I have been reading that about carbon lately. I had switched to Seachem Seagel, which is their Matrix Carbon and PhosGuard combined. They claim the PhosGuard will absorb anything the Carbon Leaches as the Carbon becomes saturated which ups the life to 3 months... Again, their Claim. I did take out one level of carbon and loaded a second level with Biomax rings. The Seagel and Purigen are just a thin layer on top of 2 baskets as a clearity/chemical boost. But now that the second level of Bio rings have matured, I believe I could eliminate the carbon and maybe stay with PhosGuard and Purigen for help with the added Ammonia and Nitrates from the Goldies.

Purigen is great from what i heard not sure. But what I would say for myself is that bio balls, biomax rings(ceramic rings) do not need to be replaced ever which is great. They offer great biological and chemical properties and allow for efficient and cheap filtration. You just wanna always make sure to never remove the biomax and you are set to go. As for the ammonia removal, it isnt very necessary if you have it cycled. If you are worried about ammonia and nitrates, you could try to start a planted tank? It works wonders!

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

 

[jetajockey]

I just recently got a sunsun hw304 for my 120, can't beat it for the price. I have had a 302 on a smaller tank for a while now with no issues to speak of.

 

[TigerFusion]

If you would be able to, get a used fx5 which should be around the same cost of a 406. I can assure that the fx5 is well worth the money if you find it on CraigsList. As for your shubunkins, do they have trouble getting food from the comets? Its not uncommon to seperate the commets and fantails due to the much faster speed of comets.

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...

Thanks for the advice on the fx5... I will look in to that.
As for the Shubunkin and Comets feeding together... I believe they will be fine. They are all single tails and all quite fast. Also, the 75 gallon in 48" wide and I can scatter the food across the length to give all 4 time to get plenty.

My other Big Project will be taking out the fine gravel I have in the 75 and replacing it with Caribsea Sunset Gold Sand, which the Comets in the 30g Absolutely Love!! It is easy to clean, the food is easier to find than in the gravel and the comets Love sifting through it all day. I think the Dojos will love burying themselves in it. Softer than the current gravel.

 

[Fishanatic]

Thanks for the advice on the fx5... I will look in to that.
As for the Shubunkin and Comets feeding together... I believe they will be fine. They are all single tails and all quite fast. Also, the 75 gallon in 48" wide and I can scatter the food across the length to give all 4 time to get plenty.

My other Big Project will be taking out the fine gravel I have in the 75 and replacing it with Caribsea Sunset Gold Sand, which the Comets in the 30g Absolutely Love!! It is easy to clean, the food is easier to find than in the gravel and the comets Love sifting through it all day. I think the Dojos will love burying themselves in it. Softer than the current gravel.

Shubunkin our twin tails, I think you mean Koi goldfish not shubunkin haha . As for the sand, sounds like a good idea, im sure my oscar would love to play with the sand. Keep us posted!

55 Gallon- Empty
125 Gallon- CKF and Tiger Oscar
220 Gallon- To come...