New found appreciation

[limnologist]

Shubunkins are NOT hybrids. There are not any 'hybrids' of goldfish as they are ALL the same species, cassius auratus. There are simply different breeds of the same species. Shubunkins are also not koi nor are they crossed with koi. They simply are a variety of goldfish that man has created from selective breeding.

An easy comparison is to use the domestic dog. All dogs are canis lupus familiaris yet there are a zillion breeds of dogs in every size, color and shape. Goldfish are the same.


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You're right, I see the reason I was thinking they are hybrids. I called them hybrids because they are hybrids between two different kinds of goldfish, the telescope eye and the calico.

 

[jlk]

You're right, I see the reason I was thinking they are hybrids. I called them hybrids because they are hybrids between two different kinds of goldfish, the telescope eye and the calico.

I think your misunderstanding the term 'hybrid'. From a genetic perspective, a hybrid results from the breeding of two different species. An example is a cross between a donkey and a horse which creates a mule. Although uncommon, the offspring of a koi and a goldfish would result in a hybrid fish.

A calico is not a breed or type of fish but simply a color designation. The history of shubunkins is debatable. Some people state they are from Japan as the result of crossing common goldfish, wakin and telescopes while others state they originated in China of unknown ancestry and were brought to Japan where they were further developed. One of my goldfish books states they are a cross between calico telescopes (demenkin) and Funa (wild breed of goldfish). I honestly do not know which (or if any) are historically accurate but I weigh in favor of J. Smart in his book on goldfish genetics (Funa/demenkin cross).


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[limnologist]

I think your misunderstanding the term 'hybrid'. From a genetic perspective, a hybrid results from the breeding of two different species. An example is a cross between a donkey and a horse which creates a mule. Although uncommon, the offspring of a koi and a goldfish would result in a hybrid fish.

A calico is not a breed or type of fish but simply a color designation. The history of shubunkins is debatable. Some people state they are from Japan as the result of crossing common goldfish, wakin and telescopes while others state they originated in China of unknown ancestry and were brought to Japan where they were further developed. One of my goldfish books states they are a cross between calico telescopes (demenkin) and Funa (wild breed of goldfish). I honestly do not know which (or if any) are historically accurate but I weigh in favor of J. Smart in his book on goldfish genetics (Funa/demenkin cross).


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true, but I think when two types of animals from the same species become estranged enough, there offspring can be considered hybrid-like, though not scientifically. What I read about the shubunkin is that a japanese hobbyist bred a chinese short bodied calico with a japanese telescope eyed and made rough breed of the shubunkin which was originally like a puffy-eyed calico with a strange blue coloration. I also heard that the shubunkin (though refined from the original after a few years) was brought to europe and mixed with wild species making a very thick, short bodied fish with the shubunkin coloration.
I don't believe all of this is correct, I read it in a book that I got from the library a few years ago. I am sure you probably have read a lot more than me, but it does seem probable.

 

[Niki86]

true, but I think when two types of animals from the same species become estranged enough, there offspring can be considered hybrid-like, though not scientifically. What I read about the shubunkin is that a japanese hobbyist bred a chinese short bodied calico with a japanese telescope eyed and made rough breed of the shubunkin which was originally like a puffy-eyed calico with a strange blue coloration. I also heard that the shubunkin (though refined from the original after a few years) was brought to europe and mixed with wild species making a very thick, short bodied fish with the shubunkin coloration.
I don't believe all of this is correct, I read it in a book that I got from the library a few years ago. I am sure you probably have read a lot more than me, but it does seem probable.

For arguments shake (sorry when a black cat and white cat have babies they are not hybrids. I think that is what they are getting at...a goldfish is a goldfish

That's also pretty interesting about the breeding though, I didn't know that!


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[Roz]

I was the same way until I rescued some goldies from a coworker! I love my goldies! I had to downsize my tanks due to illness and not being able to take care of three, and now all I have are gold fish and I love it.



Here is my tank

The heater is temporary as I have a pleco in with them currently. He is the last fish from when I dismantled my tropical tanks. No one wanted him so he had to go in with Gus and Fred.

Lovely set up!

How is Gus and Fred going now? Are they the same dynamic duo that I read about a few months ago re some health concerns? They look very happy and content now :0)


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[Stefernini]

Lovely set up!

How is Gus and Fred going now? Are they the same dynamic duo that I read about a few months ago re some health concerns? They look very happy and content now :0)


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They are, thank you! I had a big scare with them back then, but they are doing really well now. They're back to their friendly, goofy selves.

 

[Roz]

They are, thank you! I had a big scare with them back then, but they are doing really well now. They're back to their friendly, goofy selves.

So glad to hear it :0)


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[bandita]

I know the feeling, Niki! Couple years ago, I got a 55-gal tank, planning to stock it with a variety of cool, tropical fish. The owner of the tank said that he'd flush the kois down the toilet if I didn't take them with the tank. I had never cared or thought of having kois, but I really wanted that great deal tank, but I also cringed at the thought of any fish being killed, so I took the kois. My plan was to find them new homes so that I could get the fish that I really wanted. But I've gotten so attached to them! Overtime, I felt worse and worse for them, being cramped in a 55-gal tank, so I've recently upgraded their home to a pond. I just have an empty tank now, with no plans in the near future for any other fish.

 

[TigerFusion]

I know the feeling, Niki! Couple years ago, I got a 55-gal tank, planning to stock it with a variety of cool, tropical fish. The owner of the tank said that he'd flush the kois down the toilet if I didn't take them with the tank. I had never cared or thought of having kois, but I really wanted that great deal tank, but I also cringed at the thought of any fish being killed, so I took the kois. My plan was to find them new homes so that I could get the fish that I really wanted. But I've gotten so attached to them! Overtime, I felt worse and worse for them, being cramped in a 55-gal tank, so I've recently upgraded their home to a pond. I just have an empty tank now, with no plans in the near future for any other fish.

I Admire You for taking on such a Task!!! Thank you for saving them, and Providing them with a Wonderful Life!!!

 

[Niki86]

That's so awesome of you! They can now enjoy a rich life of comfort!

As for the empty tank....fancies????


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