New member with a desperate story (please help!)

[marchmaxima]

Hi

I am a new member (from Melbourne Australia) and I have come here upset and desperate for help. I wish I could say something else, but I have had nothing but hurtful and terrible experiences with my tank and all the experts I've spoken to just shrug their shoulders and don;t know why I have these issues. I dearly would like a happy freshwater tank but the way I'm going, I should be reported to the authorities!! I'm now looking to the internet for guidance and help.

I have a 15G tank and had it for around 2 years. When I set it up I purchased new gravel, a new filter (Fluval 2Plus), proper fluro lighting as recommended by the aquarium, and a new heater. I spent the money and got the good stuff (or so I was told). Then I cycled the tank. Those fish lasted 8-10 weeks from what I can remember.

Since then, nothing survives in my tank for more than 3-4 weeks. It actually has been getting worse... Fish used to last 4 weeks. Now they don't last 48 hours.

I have tried different types of fish from tetras to platys to chicilids to the honey gourami (no, not all these at once). It wouldn't matter what I put in there, they never last long. I ask for "hardy fish" but it does not make a difference. They all die and it does not take long. I make sure that I get placid fish. They never look sick.. they never look like the have nipped fins, so I don't beleive that there is much agression. I am very careful to stick to basic community breeds or a tank full of the same breed.

Around 5 months ago, I put 5 Rasbora trilineata in the tank, along with some neons and glowlights. The neons and glowlights died over that week and were gone in 7 days, but the 4 others lasted almost 2 months. However some of them got a condition that no one could explain and I can find no reference to on the internet. Their spines collapsed. So it looked like they had downward "bend" in their bodies. Only one of them didn't get this condition. He (amazingly) is still alive today. I've called him Bill.

Plants are no better. I am told anabuis (or a name like that) is "impossible to kill" - well, guess what?! it lasts a max 4 weeks in my tank. At the end of 4 weeks, it is dead. So are swords. I use the best fertiliser... I use no fertiliser. It makes no difference. I've stopped buying plants now. I've replaced the fluro bulb three times in 2 years.

I test the water regularily (twice to three times a week). I test for PH levels, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ammonia, etc. I don't test for hardness as we have very soft water in Australia. On every occasion the test results are stable and good. I've also paid to have my water tested at 3 seperate aquariums at various times. They all agree that there "should be nothing wrong" based on the test results.

Bill has been by himself for a while. Evey 8-9 weeks or so, I try to get him some friends and hope things go better than last time. It breaks my heart to see him in there all alone. Last time, and this would have been 10 weeks ago, I bought 5 glowlights. They were all dead within 7 days.

I introduced them quite quickly into the tank (i.e. in less than an hour) so I thought that maybe I introduced them too quickly. So yesterday I bought 4 more. That would have been 2pm-ish. I took special care to ensure that they were introduced carefully.

They were all dead by 11pm. Bill is still there. He looks very happy.

Every aquarium expert seems to think I am doing everything right. My husband suspects the filter. I'd agree, but from what I have read that filter is pretty good. How can that filter be responsible for tank after tank after tank of dead fish?!?!?!?!

This situation has been going on for almost two years. If Bill was agressive, then why did I have these problems before Bill?

I was extremely upset last night (still am!) and spent the night in tears thinking it would just be best if I gave up and sold everything. I certainly can't keep ging like this.... It just makes me so upset.

Could it be the tank itself? That's the only thing that wasn't replaced between now and when I started trying to keep fish. Surely glass is just glass. But what else is left?

I am so sorry for my long-winded explanation, but it is a long long story....

Any help much appreciated.

marchmaxima

 

[JDogg]

Hi


I test the water regularily (twice to three times a week). I test for PH levels, Nitrite, Nitrate, Ammonia, etc. I don't test for hardness as we have very soft water in Australia. On every occasion the test results are stable and good. I've also paid to have my water tested at 3 seperate aquariums at various times. They all agree that there "should be nothing wrong" based on the test results.

do you de-chlorinate that water? what are your test result #'s?

 

[Zagz]

Welcome to AA! If anyone can help it is the members here. Glad you found us.

Agreed exact parameters would be helpful. Are you still using the fluval? How often do you do water changes and how much each time?

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm sorry to hear of all your troubles. The neons that had the bent spines may have had fish TB: http://www.aquarticles.com/articles/management/Keefer_FishTB.html

A google search on fish tuberculosis will yield more results. If this is what your fish had, then I would tear this tank down, bleach it, get new gravel, and start over. Get new filter media. Bleach the filter and other equipment you used on the tank too or get new (like a gravel vac). Does Bill show any signs of this disease?

 

[marchmaxima]

Q: do you de-chlorinate that water? what are your test result #'s?

A: Yes. And put in a little water softener.

Test Results as follows:

PH 6.8
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10


Q: Are you still using the fluval? How often do you do water changes and how much each time?

A: once a fortnight. I change one third at a time.

Q: Does Bill show any signs of this disease?
A: No. He was the only one that never did. He's quite happy and healthy.

"If this is what your fish had, then I would tear this tank down, bleach it, get new gravel, and start over."

Might have... I tore down the tank once cleaned everything and started again. However I don't think I bleached the gravel.. And this was before the potential TB thing.

 

[marchmaxima]

Oh and yes, I'm still using the Fluval.

 

[marchmaxima]

"Fish TB are usually wasting, lesions on the body, skeletal deformities (a few of mine developed curved spines), and loss of scales and coloration."

I guess after reading this I can't rule it out. The 4 fish I got with Bill (same type) got the skeletal deformities, but had no other symptoms. As I said, nothing lasts long and everything dies.

But the issue of the fish ust dying was occurring long before I got Bill and his mates.

 

[Zagz]

I don't know what softner you are using but IME you don't need to add anything to the water beside dechlorinator. It is possible that the softner you are using is causing some parameter swings, causing illness in your fish. For example, if you try and alter your ph to be "perfect" ph, the swings can cause fish to become sick and die even. What brand of softner are you using?

I would up your water changes to once per week as opposed to once every two weeks.

I assume not all the fish were purchased from the same store?

 

[marchmaxima]

The brand of softener is "Showmaster Water Conditioner" - I was told by a guy who owned the aquarium near me that I needed it. He said that not using it might have caused the issues, so I started using just a bit when changing water.

 

[marchmaxima]

"For example, if you try and alter your ph to be "perfect" ph, the swings can cause fish to become sick and die even"

Yeah I know that... The PH stays pretty stable. It's pretty rare I need to add anyting to bring it down, and on the odd times I do need to add PH down, I do it in stages as I know dramatic PH changes can be harmful

 

[Zagz]

I am unfamiliar with that product. So I can't honestly tell you if it would change your GH or KH or PH for that matter. Either way you say you had the problems before using the softner. So that can't be it.

Is Bill your only fish? If not what other fish and how long have you had them?

Do you buy from more than one fish store? If you buy from only one fish store try buying from a different one.

Try upping the amount and frequency of water changes. It certainly can't hurt and it may help.

If the deaths continue the best thing to do is tear down the entire tank and disinfect it like Ant i-asg says.

 

[marchmaxima]

Hi Anne

"Is Bill your only fish? If not what other fish and how long have you had them?"\

Presently, Bill is the only fish. I purchased 4 glowlight tetras yesterday afternoon and by 11pm all were dead. Prior to that, the maximum time a fish will last is a week.


I went through a period of 4 months when i did weekly water changes, and a longer period where I did 3-weekly water changes. It didn't seem to change things.

Over the two years, I've used 3 different aquariums.

I think I may have to tear everything apart and start afresh.... I have a second tank I can move Bill to for the time being....

Let's say I want to disinfect everything.. Filter, Gravel, etc. Is there a best-practise process? How do I do it to ensure that I don't make the tank toxic?

I'd rather not replace the filter/gravel again if I don't have to. I've done that already.

 

[fijiwigi]

Try not to dose anything for a couple of months and see what happens. Dosing creates instabililty at times and consistency is the key to success. Most fish can thrive in less than perfect conditions as long as there are not drastic changes in the water chemistry. Whatever you do it must be consistent.

 

[An t-iasg]

I'm still curious about the Showmaster water conditioner. I did a google search and couldn't find much - some agricultural sites? Is this an aquarium product or something for a water softening machine?

Is there any way a soap or surfactant of some sort is getting into the tank? These are very toxic to fish.

 

[marchmaxima]

Yeah, I can't find any reference to it on the Internet, but I can assure you, I've seen it in many aquarium stores here.

It comprises crystals. It's an product that's made in Australia and is specifically for goldfish and tropical fish. It states to add it each time new water is added to the tank and it says to "add a teaspoon of aquamaster condition salts to each 10 litres of water"

I think it's similar to the aquamaster condition salts, but I was advised that it did not remove chlorine.

http://www.petsplus.com.au/pet-shop.asp?id=255

I was also advised to use this to remove chlorine. http://www.theaquariumshop.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=1022&name=Nutrafin+Aqua+Plus+118mL

To be honest, when I do a water change, I use only a a small sprinkling of crystals ion the first bucket of water to go into the tank. After that, I mostly just use the Nutrifin AquaPlus as directed on the instructions.

 

[marchmaxima]

" Is there any way a soap or surfactant of some sort is getting into the tank? These are very toxic to fish."

I wash my hands with soap/water before I handle the tank when cleaning, but I am very careful to thoroughly rinse to ensure that no soap gets anywhere near the tank.... Although I do notice that after I wash/dry my hands, they still smell of soap. I have wondered if I was getting soap residue in, but I'm not sure how I long I should rinse my hands for, so I continue to rinse my hands in water for around 15 seconds after the last of the soap suds have been cleaned away.

I only ever wash the filter in its own tank water... I don't use soap to clean the gravel vac. I just leave it to dry outside.

 

[marchmaxima]

Try not to dose anything for a couple of months and see what happens. Dosing creates instabililty at times and consistency is the key to success. Most fish can thrive in less than perfect conditions as long as there are not drastic changes in the water chemistry. Whatever you do it must be consistent.

Sorry, I may be naff, but what's dosing?

I'm consistently losing this battle. That's all I know at this stage.

 

[marchmaxima]

Sorry, I now realise you mean using PH adjusters. I use PH Down sparingly when the PH goes up in an effort to keep it somewhere between 6.8 and 7.0-ish. It never goes down, only up. I don't know why it goes up. It always has tho....

Once it got to 7.6 (the highest reading on my tank) and I spent the next 2 weeks slowly bringing it down.

So that said, how can you stablise the PH (at whatever level) without using the adjusters? Wouldn't the PH just keep going up and up and harm the fish?

 

[An t-iasg]

You said your water is very soft, right, so you don't test for any hardness value? It would be helpful to test for KH (carbonate hardness). A decent KH value stabilizes the pH. A KH of 1-3 degrees (dKH) is considered low. I'm not sure what a moderate or high range would be. My KH is 5 (probably a moderate level) and my pH stays stable. If your KH is very low, your pH can swing. That's why adding the pH down/up products are not usually advised. If your KH is low, there are no stabilizing buffers present in the water and the pH adjusting products just cause pH swings. If the KH is high (probably in the 6+ range) the water contains many stabilizing buffers and will resist the pH swings. You may then add more of the ph adjuster if you don't see a pH change. More of these types of products over time are stressful to fish. The pH down product is an acid, so adding more and more acid over time isn't good for fish.

The pH in your tank was 7.6 at its highest reading? 7.6 is a fine pH for tropical fish. There's no need to adjust that at all. I have read that members here have a KH value of 1 and their fish are still fine with no pH adjustments. Fish can adjust to a wide range of pH values, but they don't handle pH adjustments very well, and in most cases, there's no need to adjust the pH. I'm wondering if the Showmaster crystals are a type of KH booster? Maybe your pet store was trying to boost your KH because you have very soft water. Some people do boost their KH if they inject CO2 into their tanks, so it's not unheard of to do that, but in your case I'd say you don't need to (if that's the reason you're using the Showmaster crystals).

If you have a good KH value to begin with, then your weekly water changes replenish those buffers that make up the KH value - keeping your pH stable.

 

[JeffreyL]

" Is there any way a soap or surfactant of some sort is getting into the tank? These are very toxic to fish."

Although I do notice that after I wash/dry my hands, they still smell of soap. I have wondered if I was getting soap residue in, but I'm not sure how I long I should rinse my hands for, so I continue to rinse my hands in water for around 15 seconds after the last of the soap suds have been cleaned away.

The soap smell concerns me. You may very well have a lotion or some other additive in the soap that stays on your hands.

I use non scented dish soap on my hands, and forearms if neccessary and rinse like crazy.

Although this would not account for your issues getting worse. Unless you have switched soaps or use more than one??

Hope you figure this out soon!! Good Luck!!!

Jeff