New setup: 95 g wave reef tank

[Pittsburgh]

Alright, this is going to be my first SW setup. I have just ordered All-glass 95g wave tank with overflow (AG megaflow). it will come with the stand, glass lid and overflow piping. Thats about it.

I have done lots of reading on the subject and plenty of research. Hence, here's my shopping list so far:

00. RO/DI: 5-6 stage 100GPD RO/DI Water filter
01. Lighting: 48'' SunPod 2x150W 14,000K unit with 9 lunar lights
02. Sump: ProClear Aquatics Premier 200 Wet Dry Filter without Prefilter
03. Return Pipe: Mag 9.5 950GPH
04. Skimmer: AquaC EV-120 in-sump
05. Power Heads: Not yet sure. Perhaps 2 heads @ 175gph each. (brand?)
06. Heater: 300W submersible in-sump (brand?)
07. Salt: Instant Ocean
08. SW test kit: pH, nitrite, nitrate, ammonia
09. Refractometer
10. Thermometer
11. any extra plumbing
12. Sand: Argonite either from LFS or HomeDepot
13. LR: 60lb of cured Fiji, 60lb of cured Tonga branch. 100% online order.
14. Cycle: 4 Jumbo shrimp from LGS

Can you see any discrepancy in this list?
Any and all comments and suggestions are appreciated.
I am somewhat concerned about getting 100% of my LR online. Should I get some LR from LFS? they sell cured Fiji for $5/lb.

Also, I am still in doubt what sump to get... ProClear or EcoSystem? Should I even consider one with a built-in skimmer? all-in-one looks like a good deal money wise... but I dont want to regret my purchase later.

I will start posting DSLR pics as soon as equipment starts coming in...

 

[austinsdad]

Some do fine with mail order rock, but I'd prefer to see most of mine that'll provide the major foundation for my aquascape. Never did mail order, so maybe I'm not the one to listen to anyway. Your list looks good. You've been doing some good homework I see.

On the skimmer - if you can stay with the Aqua C, you'll love it. I've got the 180 EV on my 155g. You getting the pump for the skimmer too? I also like the John Guest speed fitting just in case I ever want to hook up a calc reator. Not going with a UV, huh? Lot's of folks don't it seems, but I have on in-line which I run for a couple of weeks at a time if I add new fish (after QT, of course).

Speaking of which, got plans for a QT tank setup? It may save you money and headaches in the long run. I recommend'm highly!

Also, look at dry, base rock. Great for aquascaping, and on the pocket, and it will become live in no time when mixed with the live stuff. Add it before cycling. Also, if you're putting a substantial amount of uncure LR in there, you may be able to cycle with just that anyway (w/out shrimp). You'll only need 2 decent sized shrimp IMO if you did cycle that way.

Also, realize that ( I believe) your tank is kinda tall. That lighting you're ordering isn't gonna support a wide variety of coral. Placement of coral (in higher areas) may be the key to success there. Of course, more lighting will evap more and make you top off more frequently, so think about room/plans for FW reservoir setups. I happend to have enuf room under my cabinet for a 37g FW tank and pump with sensors to do that for me.

Otherwise, welcome to AA and we're anxious to see your progress and help you. I like what I'm hearing so far. Just kinda up in the air about your lighting - if you really like reef.

Good luck!

 

[roka64]

WELCOME TO AA!!

Ray gave some pretty good advice. I'll add my ideas.
00. I have this RO/DI unit http://cgi.ebay.com/New-6-stage-100...ryZ20684QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
01. Lighting will depend on if/what types of corals you want to keep.
02. Sump, not sure about...
04. Aqua C Remoras are a good popular brand. I don't use a skimmer.
05. Phs... I really like the Hydors http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4585+15955&pcatid=15955 they have a great cone shaped flow and I have seen snails crawl accross them and not get damaged. I also like SEIOs http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4585+12074&pcatid=12074 they have a great flow that can be adjusted to disperse over a nice range. You can also look at Maxi-Jets http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4585+4609&pcatid=4609, these will give you a strong "jet stream" flow. There are other brands out there, but these are the ones I have experience with. Tunze is also a costly but great brand.
06. Heaters - Personally, I like the Finnex 300w DIGITAL Titanium Heater w/controller http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...duct_Code=FI-HMD-300&Category_Code=Finnexheat, I have two in my 125. I lost a lot of water in my 55, exposing the heaters (100W ones, I think) to the air for a few hours and they both still work great.
07. This will probably be debated a bit. I started with IO and changed up to Reef Crystals. I had problems with cyano, when I used IO. There are plenty of folks that use it, I think some of it depends on your water...but who knows.
08. I use the Saltwater Master Liquid Test Kit http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+4452&pcatid=4452. It's a good price and easy to read results (except for the pH). Seachem makes great test kits as well.
09. I like this Refractometer http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+4345+9957&pcatid=9957.
12. I bought 270Lbs of Aragamax Sand http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+10741+7321&pcatid=7321 from the drs site (linked, like the rest of the other items) and shipping was $15.99. If you check HD, bring some vinegar with you to test the sand. If it is silica based, it won't foam/fizzle. Aragonite sand is ideal for your sand sifting critters.
13. Like Austinsdad said, you can save money if you mix base rock with either cured or uncured rock. I bought 150Lbs of base from marcorocks.com and am very happy with how porous they are.
14. I would stick with 3 jumbo shrimp (you want to shoot for 1 jumbo per 30 gallons).
Props on doing the humane Fishless cycle.

+++EDIT+++
I also wanted to add, thatpetplace.com, in Lancaster, PA price matches.
You may also want to go Here http://www.aquariumadvice.com/groupcp.php?g=13837 to join the Pitt regional forums.

 

[melosu58]

Your equipment list looks pretty good. I might even suggest just 2 shrimp as even though your LR says cured you will experience some die off through shipping. This will supply some of your ammonia source.

 

[Pittsburgh]

Thanks for some great and detailed inputs! I knew that I was going to miss some points...

OK, first things first. I will write a more detailed response later from home...

00. roka64, this is the exact same RO/DI unit I was going to get on ebay
01. austinsdad, you have an excellent point, my tank height is 25'' and I completely disregarded the depth issue. I just went ahead and used the http://members.dslextreme.com/users/czcz/images/lumens_sqin.xls, posted here earlier. It returned 4.25 T12 equivalent index... is it too low? should I go with 250w bulbs? or may be a completely different system such as Coralife? I do realize that light intensity requirement depends on the lifestock... which I did not think much about just yet. But what I do know is that I dont want to come by my LFS when the tank is all set for lifestock and realize that I cant handle 80% of lifestock/corals available there...
04. oops, did not realize that the skimmer does not include pump, thought the return pump would be sufficient... what capacity the skimmer pump should be for my skimmer model?

I will reply to the rest of your comments later tonight.

 

[An t-iasg]

Hi Pittsburgh and welcome!

Do you plan to attend the MACNA conference at the Expo Mart this weekend?

http://www.macna2007.com/

 

[austinsdad]

Likely a Mag 5 or 7. Check the skimmer specs. It'll tell you what's recommended.

I'm not a T-5 person, so I can't help you much with that. Of course, once you go metaal Halide, other issues come into play. Water temp. Evaporation.

See if this helps...

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~AC120GM.html

 

[austinsdad]

Not sure how that index thingy works. I was surprised you say it came up with 4.25 wpg. As little as I know, I just did 2x150+300, and 300/95+ 3.1 or so. Then, thought about the depth and thought you'd get less than that nearer the bottom of the tank.

So, what did I miss? I'm sure there's something in that formula thingy..... :?

 

[Pittsburgh]

Alright, lets move on.

Austinsdad: the skimmer specs say Mag-5 for the pump, so be it. Now, I was going to get Mag-9.5 for my return pump, is the return pump and skimmer pump same thing? do I need two pumps? if its the same thing, does it make sence to go with a more powerful pump than the one recommended? Do I have any control over pump throughput on Mag's?
UV... I thought about it in the same context as you did, UV+QT tank. I figured that if I build a QT tank, I would have UV unit in it... Although, I wasnt going to build a QT just yet. Same for FW tank. One step at a time. What kind of pump and sensors are you talking about? Can you post a link to info/examples?

roka64: Great advice on PHs, and everything else for that matter. I really like what I read about Tunze PHs... their basic units such as 6060 provide 3 times the flow of other lower cost brands. I am definately getting at least one Tunze 6060...
I may need two heaters as well, its just that if I go with HQI Lighting, I will probably end up getting a chiller instead
Hmm... I should check out that Aragamax sand, btw how much sand would I need to cover about 1'' of the 95g tank? the tank is tall, so the area is about 48''x22''? 270lbs sounds like alot, how big is your tank? 125g?
Now, here is something I do not quite get about curing LR. I was under the impression that I can not get the base rock to cure just by using raw shrimp. I thought I should have at least 20% of cured LR to get the base rock going. Are you saying that even 100% base rock will get cured over time with the shrimp only cycle? It will probably take about 2 months, which is not a problem, but I just wanted to be clear on this.

melosu58: Thanks. You are right...two shrimp would probably suffice if I will be getting 100% of cured rock online.

An t-iasg: I've seen the ad. It's abit late for pre registration, I wish I knew about the event sooner. I may still consider stopping by on one of the weekend days just for the day events if time permits... Its good to meet you. I should pay a visit to our regional forum as roka64 suggested.

Now back to my pain of the day, lighting. Forget about MH/CF/etc for now. Any general suggestions regarding a 95g 24'' deep reefer? As I have already mentioned, I would like to be able to grow corals with average and above average light requirements. Not just mashrooms. I was going to go with MH lights because of high density (14000k), moonlights and power savings. Or so I've read. Any reason I should reconsider my choise? How much evaporation should I expect with 300 and 500w MH per day? how much is it different from CF lights of similar wattage? I am also surprised to get 4.25 using this formula, but didnt know better... I should consider 2x250w MH unit and a chiller... or may be there is a CF unit of similar capacity?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Just chiming in to say way to think things through! Looks like you've got a great equipment list. (I'm jealous!)

I'm a big fan of two smaller heaters versus one big one. The thinking is that if you have one and it sticks on, you're going to have problems quicker than if you had two smaller ones and one stuck on. I've personally had this happen (even with the "never-failing" VisiTherms!) and was able to realize what was happening before things got out of hand. The flip side of that argument is that you can never get two heater to "agree" with each other. Personally, I haven't had a problem with this. It takes a few days of tweaking, but you eventually get it there.

Also... regarding your live rock... I think the idea of using 20% "cured" live rock is so that you'll get a source of coralline algae and some "hitchikers". Using 100% base rock will not get you those things. With regard to the cycle and the beneficial bacteria that you're building up during your cycle, 100% base rock is just fine. You don't need "cured" live rock to give you those bacteria. Given even sterile rock and water, an ammonia source, and 4-8 weeks, you'll develop a good population of bacteria.

I'd hold off on the chiller until you're sure you'll need it. A little clip-on fan blowing across the sump and tank will take an amazing amount of heat away from your tank. Really, it will!

Welcome aboard!

PS - Regarding live rock purchases online, I got all my live rock from PremiumAquatics.com and couldn't be happier. None of my LFS had decent looking rock at a reasonable price. I called Premium Aquatics and talked to the nice folks there. I described what I had in mind for aquascaping and they described to me what they had in their tank that they thought would look good. I got it delivered via Southwest Airlines (luckily, I'm pretty darn close to an airport!) and it worked perfectly. If I was buying rock online, this is the only way I'd do it - versus getting a "mystery" box of unknown sizes. Then again, if I had a LFS with Fiji at $5/lb and it looked decent, I would've bought it local!

 

[austinsdad]

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_Aquar...automatic_top_off_water_level_controller.html

Wow! Gotta learn how to make those links shorter. I'm sure one of my cyber buddies can help me. Anyway, this is the top-off unit I use. Though I'm running a sump/refugium. Also, I'm not familiar with the sump you're using, but if it's got/uses bio-balls, I'd say do some more considering. I've heard folks replace'm with rock rubble 'cause the balls can harbor extreme nitrates after time I've read (from folk's comments over the years).

Of course, with this top-off unit you've gotta have a fresh water source. Any room under or behind (another room???) for a FW reservoir? Doubt whether any is under.

Yes the return pump and skimmer pump are two distinct/different things. Find a pump calculator ( I belive Reef Central has one). It'll allow you to calculate that exact pump -Mag 9.5, estimate head loss (from pump, up to outlet/tank) and know what your turnover rate is. Reef tanks shoot for 6 to 10 to 15x turnover (total gph flow from main pump/95g - in your case). I've got Mag 12 on a 155g tank, so I guess I'm getting about 7x or so. I've heard of many reef tanks with 10x or more.

Then, the powerhead's gph (total, when more than one is used - which I would)/95g gives you circulation rate. You go a lot higher there. I've got twin Tunze 6065's and multicontroller and love it. Then again, I can't really crank'm up past 50-60%. Maybe I wasted money. Check into those that Roka64 recommended too maybe. Look into a pair of whatever you get and a multicontroller - if you go Tunze.

On that lighting again, I'm assuming with a wave design, there would not be a canopy, so that helps the temp issue. Will the lighting sit on the edge of the tank?

I had a PC lighting on a 72g that sat on the side edges of the tank. All else open at the top. I evap'd about 5g a week. With the 3x150 MHs and 4x96 PC I've got now in a canopy, I lose 3-4 gallons a day, so a reservoir was critical to me. May not be as much for you, but you wann try to maintain that salinity level as best you can. Some folks simply carry a bucket of FW to their sump daily. No big deal. Its was for me - even with my 72g. I didn't like it every day. Now I just fill up once every 10 days or so.

Heck, I've even heard of folks hooking directly to the RO/DI somehow for top-off. Can't help you there - and of course it depends on proximity.

Anyway, keep us posted.

Don't see the use of the UV in the QT. Not saying it shouldn't, but I don't think it's most useful there.

 

[austinsdad]

Also check out some of these neat calculators. They may help with some of your planning.
http://www.fantasyreef.com/flash/calculator.html

I agree on the chiller thing. Wait. Plus, that's a whole lot of power consumption and it takes up space.

 

[roka64]

I should check out that Aragamax sand, btw how much sand would I need to cover about 1'' of the 95g tank? the tank is tall, so the area is about 48''x22''? 270lbs sounds like alot, how big is your tank? 125g?

Yep, I have a 125. I used that calculator and ended up buying
too much sand. I think I have 2 unused bags and ended up with about a 5 inch sand bed.
As for the lighting and a chiller. I solved my heat issues with a floor fan. My tank was running at about 83ish with the lights on. I put a floor fan on the same timer as my lights and my temp stays around 77-78.
I agree with Lance about the dual heaters. I have two in each tank, for redundancy.
One othe thing you might want to invest in is a Ultra-Ground Titanium Probe http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1.

 

[austinsdad]

How about Reef Central's sand bed calculators then? Good one for pumps too.

http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/hlc2.php

 

[Pittsburgh]

Hey guys. Thanks for all your replies and suggestions. That was one heck of a day for me both at work and at home... I dont think I will be able to digest all your comments tonight, but tomorrow I will do some more calculations and will see what I can come up with.

So, anyway, I came back home late tonight to find out that my LFS called me to notify of my new tank arrival. About a week earlier than planned! So I ran out to pick it up. Good news: I got a great aquarium, not so good news: I got nothing else for it yet. But anyway, one step at a time...well three steps. Here's the promised photos:

-EDIT-
Great... attachments added in the reverse order. Well, start looking from the bottom up. Next time this will be taken into consideration.

 

[neilanh]

Looks great, congrats!

These guys have some great advice, don't they?

Just make sure they save some for me.

 

[austinsdad]

While you're waiting for more stuff, look up the Durso Standpipe DIY. Basically, it'll raise the point at which the overflow water enters the pipe to go to the sump. Less noise. If I didn't 'splain it well, the site will.

You'll probably also end up pointing at least one of those flex hoses more towards the middle or larger end of the tank. Can get more out of them than both being at the small end like they are in the pic.

After you plumb the skimmer, UV (if so). etc, you'll want to turn'm all on (tank filled with FW) to further check for leaks again IMO.

At this point (when I had mine at your stage), I put a heavy coat of polyurethane (brushed) on the floor and walls of the inner cabinet areas of mine, There's gonna be a lot of water activity down there and I feel it'd help. Spills, leaks (hopefully not), drips, etc.

Also, consider the UV. could mount it on the "ceiling" of the inner cabinet. Pump up from the sump and fall back down. Keeps the UV out of my way for me. So, consider that and see if you need to mount before the tank is permanently placed.

Before you fill that bad boy, carefully consider how far away from the wall you can stand it. Down the road you may have to get back there to service something, somehow. Even better, you could always put a HOB fuge back there. Although the ones I've seen/used are no more than 5g I believe, still a nice place to cultivate pods and macro algaes, or critters for that matter. Having room to see'm (away from the wall a bit) sure helps.

Anyway, looking good.

How's the electrical supply on that wall? I ended up putting a dedicated 20amp, 4 plug box behind mine in addition to the normal, dual 15amp already there. Maybe overkill, but once I considered lighting, pumps, sensors, etc, etc, seemed the right thing to do. So, maybe take inventory of your electrical now. Count every plug from every device. Consider hanging power strips behind the stand - the top strip, just below the tank, facing the wall.

Ooh, one more thing. Consider that you'll likely have timers for lights (at least two - dayight and actinic, maybe more depending on you lighting choice), maybe 2 fans - if you go MH. Make sure you have room in the grand electrical scheme. If you use the dial type, they take up more room than a standard plug-in.

Sorry to overload. In a talkative mood I guess.

 

[roka64]

Oh, man that is one sweet looking tank!

 

[lando]

Welcome to AquariumAdvice.com!!!
I have the same tank (same color stand too) and love it. You have been given some very good advice here so I do not have too much to comment on. I use a Pro LCear 150 so I can offer info on the sump. First, make sure the 200 will fit in your stand. The doors are not too wide so make sure you can get it underneith there. Second, Pro Clear makes a decent product but some modification will certainly help in a reef application. I recommend removing the bioballs and tray they sit on and filling the chamber with LR rubble instead. I have some pics in my gallery of my sump with the LR rubble in it. It makes for a far superior filtration media. The difference is that the LR rubble should stay fully submerged in water, where as the bioballs have water "trickle" over them (hence the wet/dry term for the filter).

Sounds like you are starting off on the right foot. Good planning and your equipment list looks pretty good. I agree that 2 250watt MH lamps with some sort of actinic suppliment will be a better option for this tank. ALso, I would consider using a different salt mix. I have heard of Ph and PO4 issues with IO...just a thought. Good luck with the set up and keep us posted on the progress.

 

[Pittsburgh]

lando: Thanks for the input. I looked at your sump, it seems you got a built-n skimmer in there. how is it working out for you?
I've heard too many times people talking about replacing bioballs with LR rumble. So I guess this is what I am going to do as well. Isnt 150 abit small for that tank? or is it because you got a built in skimmer. I'm gonna try to go with 200 unless there is no way it will fit inside the cabinet.

austinsdad: great advice on polyurethan, I will do that. Got to do some power calculations as soon as I figure major components. I have 15amp outlet on that wall, I can bring alot more from the garage below if needed.

roka46: Thanks! I love it too.

neilanh: They sure do. But I'm sorry, First come first served