New tank help

[winstonsmith84]

That is incorrect. I'm sorry, but as a mod, I have to call foul when someone is giving bad advice.

Actually, he should be doing water changes if his ammonia gets above .25 which is the toxic level. If he doesn't, he can burn the gills of his fish and cause other damage. it will not take 6 months if he does water changes to keep his ammonia under .25. Using something like Ammo-lock only stalls the cycle.

Also, don't worry about changing your filter pads until they start falling apart, seriously. As for cleaning them, swish them in a bucket of tank water, that's all you need to do.

Here is a link about cycling with fish. Please read it and use it to help you cycle.

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

Sorry, I didn't mean to start an argument. This is part of my issue that there's so much conflicting info out there that I'm weeding through.

Yes, I'm slightly overstocked. Yes I have researched ammonia and whether .25-.5 is dangerous. I've figured out that ph and temp and ammonia levels aren't always an end all authority in that there are equations to figure out the dangerous levels of ammonia, which I've figured out is below the .05 level.

I'm keeping up with wc's at least once if needed twice a day. I've stopped all chemicals and bottle products except for seachem prime. Since I have the am level has leveled out and the fish are very active (in a good way).

I will continue to monitor to make sure levels don't spike anymore. If I may ask, how long before nitrites start to appear if I maintain an .25-.5 am level without removing filter medium? I've stopped swishing the filter daily on another posters advice and will only do as needed.

Thanks everyone. This is a great forum even if there is a differing of opinions.

 

[DragonFish71]

.25ppm or above in a 10g tank with 4 mollies and a plecos, all of which are high bio-load producers will quickly escalate into worsening conditions. If it was 4 neon tetras, I wouldn't be as concerned. His best option to keep them alive and healthy is water changes to keep the ammonia down. Since we do not know his pH or any other factors, .25 is a prudent and obtainable goal.

Also, from my own experience, I've seen fish suffer damage at .25ppm ammonia. Their gills do redden, they do gasp and they do act lethargic.

 

[Caliban07]

Sorry, I didn't mean to start an argument. This is part of my issue that there's so much conflicting info out there that I'm weeding through.

Yes, I'm slightly overstocked. Yes I have researched ammonia and whether .25-.5 is dangerous. I've figured out that ph and temp and ammonia levels aren't always an end all authority in that there are equations to figure out the dangerous levels of ammonia, which I've figured out is below the .05 level.

I'm keeping up with wc's at least once if needed twice a day. I've stopped all chemicals and bottle products except for seachem prime. Since I have the am level has leveled out and the fish are very active (in a good way).

I will continue to monitor to make sure levels don't spike anymore. If I may ask, how long before nitrites start to appear if I maintain an .25-.5 am level without removing filter medium? I've stopped swishing the filter daily on another posters advice and will only do as needed.

Thanks everyone. This is a great forum even if there is a differing of opinions.

Your doing a good job. You have bothered to research and are learning fairly rapidly. In undeterred cycle, nitrites usually show up after 12-14 days.

 

[winstonsmith84]

.25ppm or above in a 10g tank with 4 mollies and a plecos, all of which are high bio-load producers will quickly escalate into worsening conditions. If it was 4 neon tetras, I wouldn't be as concerned. His best option to keep them alive and healthy is water changes to keep the ammonia down. Since we do not know his pH or any other factors, .25 is a prudent and obtainable goal.

Also, from my own experience, I've seen fish suffer damage at .25ppm ammonia. Their gills do redden, they do gasp and they do act lethargic.

H is 7.4. I've posted that earlier. Temp is 76-77 tops.

 

[DragonFish71]

H is 7.4. I've posted that earlier. Temp is 76-77 tops.

Is that before or after your water change? pH can fluctuate unless you're using RO/DI or you have water sitting over night for refills.

 

[Caliban07]

.25ppm or above in a 10g tank with 4 mollies and a plecos, all of which are high bio-load producers will quickly escalate into worsening conditions. If it was 4 neon tetras, I wouldn't be as concerned. His best option to keep them alive and healthy is water changes to keep the ammonia down. Since we do not know his pH or any other factors, .25 is a prudent and obtainable goal.

Also, from my own experience, I've seen fish suffer damage at .25ppm ammonia. Their gills do redden, they do gasp and they do act lethargic.

That's fine dragon. But I'm only relaying what has been produced by another member of this forum. The op has it under control. I was merely stating that according to the chart he is in the green. His fish have shown no signs of stress or ammonia burn. I also pointed out that he has a hefty bioload which he also knows and I mentioned to look out for nitrites. Constantly changing water in my opinion should be done when fish are showing sign of toxicity. You spend an hour acclimatising the fish to your tanks water chemistry and temp and then keep bailing half out twice a day is going to stress the fish. Especially if temps aren't matched. Not to mention removing food for the bacteria.

If a fish in cycle is carried out responsibly then no harm will come of your fish. If I didn't think the op had his situation under control I would have said to take the fish back. People always assume that people who make mistakes are ignorant. It's easy to assume that chucking fish in water is all it takes in this hobby. The op realises that this is not the case and has taken the time to research and learn and he has it under control.

Op I would watch for a nitrite spike then it's defo change water time.

 

[Caliban07]

You are a he arn't you OP?

 

[DragonFish71]

That's fine dragon. But I'm only relaying what has been produced by another member of this forum. The op has it under control. I was merely stating that according to the chart he is in the green. His fish have shown no signs of stress or ammonia burn. I also pointed out that he has a hefty bioload which he also knows and I mentioned to look out for nitrites. Constantly changing water in my opinion should be done when fish are showing sign of toxicity. You spend an hour acclimatising the fish to your tanks water chemistry and temp and then keep bailing half out twice a day is going to stress the fish. Especially if temps aren't matched. Not to mention removing food for the bacteria.

If a fish in cycle is carried out responsibly then no harm will come of your fish. If I didn't think the op had his situation under control I would have said to take the fish back. People always assume that people who make mistakes are ignorant. It's easy to assume that chucking fish in water is all it takes in this hobby. The op realises that this is not the case and has taken the time to research and learn and he has it under control.

Op I would watch for a nitrite spike then it's defo change water time.

It also would depend on what his pH is from the tap not at a "standing" state. As in if he is checking before a water change. If checking pH before a water change, it's had time to gas out. If his tap is 7.4, lucky!

 

[Caliban07]

It also would depend on what his pH is from the tap not at a "standing" state. As in if he is checking before a water change. If checking pH before a water change, it's had time to gas out. If his tap is 7.4, lucky!

Good job he is using prime then eh?

 

[winstonsmith84]

You are a he arn't you OP?

Yes this is the op. Thanks so much for taking the time to get back to me everyone.

I have researched much and am up on cycling and levels. Trying to maintain till I can get another tank (hopefully bigger) and not have to return the fish.

Yes I've learned a ton in a few weeks.

As for my ph from the tap: it's 7.6 or thereabouts. I have not been able to aerate it for a day but leaving it out produced around an 7.8 level. I'm keepin tabs on that as well.

 

[Caliban07]

Yes this is the op. Thanks so much for taking the time to get back to me everyone.

I have researched much and am up on cycling and levels. Trying to maintain till I can get another tank (hopefully bigger) and not have to return the fish.

Yes I've learned a ton in a few weeks.

As for my ph from the tap: it's 7.6 or thereabouts. I have not been able to aerate it for a day but leaving it out produced around an 7.8 level. I'm keepin tabs on that as well.

Good for you. You're welcome also. At least you will be able to transfer your seeded media over to the bigger tank with your fish and not have to worry as much

 

[winstonsmith84]

Good for you. You're welcome also. At least you will be able to transfer your seeded media over to the bigger tank with your fish and not have to worry as much

Caliban, yes!! At least I'll have something to transfer over.

Everyone looks good. Haven't lost anyone and there doesn't appear to be any signs of ammonia issues.

My daughter has also learned a lot she tests the water regularly for me as well and am teaching her about the nitrification process so the mistakes aren't repeated.

This app and site was a tremendous help in getting our tank stable again.

 

[DragonFish71]

It's great that your daughter is involved in the process as well.

Like Caliban said, time to start plotting a larger tank since you are on the right track. The pleco will need a bigger home.

 

[winstonsmith84]

It's great that your daughter is involved in the process as well.

Like Caliban said, time to start plotting a larger tank since you are on the right track. The pleco will need a bigger home.

Thanks dragonish. Yes I've already started hunting for something. The pleco u see, think you can identify? I no longer trust my lfs guys and will always come here with questions. I told him what I had and he went ahead and let me buy everything. So screw them.

Just in case anyone is wondering: yes I match water temp to tank temp as best I can. I have a good thermometer that gets me within a degree or better.

I test twice if not more the am levels each day. I have tried to test nitrites but they haven't shown up yet.

I've stopped adding EVERYTHING except prime to my tank.

 

[DragonFish71]

It looks like a standard pleco, which can get over a foot long and can tear up a tank. You're best bet would be to re-home him and go for a bristlenose or clown pleco. They both stay small, 3-5 inches max and don't destroy a tank.

 

[winstonsmith84]

It looks like a standard pleco, which can get over a foot long and can tear up a tank. You're best bet would be to re-home him and go for a bristlenose or clown pleco. They both stay small, 3-5 inches max and don't destroy a tank.

Really hating my lfs!! Serious? A foot? Ok. How long does it take for them to grow? I figure in a few months I can move everyone to bigger pastures.

A foot?! Jeez.

 

[DragonFish71]

Mine took a few years to get that big, but he destroyed my 120g when he was at 7 inches. I finally gave him to a mom/pop store. They loved big plecos.

 

[Caliban07]

I would also definitely recommend quarantining future purchases for at least 2 weeks before putting them in to the tank. If like me, you fail to do this you will sooner or later succumb to the really difficult side of fish keeping. I have columnaris sweeping through my tank and just lost my ram. Just ordered some API triple triple sulfa.

Good luck in the future.

 

[HN1]

I would also definitely recommend quarantining future purchases for at least 2 weeks before putting them in to the tank. If like me, you fail to do this you will sooner or later succumb to the really difficult side of fish keeping. I have columnaris sweeping through my tank and just lost my ram. Just ordered some API triple triple sulfa.

Good luck in the future.

What he said. But minimum of 4 weeks IMO. I've had fish that looked wonderful one day, wipe out the tank the next.

Glad to hear that things are going well!

 

[Caliban07]

The assumption that a cycle will take 6 months is the only part of the conversation that I'm going to address. I've done every method of cycling imaginable and there is NO WAY that a tank will take more than a couple months fishless (if you make mistakes along the way). It really should complete in about one month. Fish in cycles are actually quicker because the colonies only have to grow to the size of the stock rather than 4ppm. One of the biggest mistakes I see people make after a fishless cycle is to stock TOO LITTLE of a load which leads to bacteria die off in some amount and there for added ammonia. Water changes will not stall or delay a cycle. We routinely start new tanks with seeded material and all it requires is a week or two of daily to every other day PWCs.

There are several articles on the various methods of cycling. I would suggest that the OP and anyone else that wants to actually learn more on the topic, do some actual reading rather than repeating.

That reminds me. Just going back to what you said earlier about bacteria "dying off" and creating ammonia. There are studies that show bacteria in our aquariums can go dormant for up to 3 months without a food source. Of course eventually numbers will fall in line with the available food but this would be a very slow process and even then the new food source from the dead bacteria would be rapidly consumed by the existing bacteria. I would think it would be a fairly controlled drop in numbers without an ammonia spike?