New Tank - Plant Trouble

[linford585]

Hi everyone!

I'm new to this forum and will be writing an introduction in the introduction section right after this post, but I'm having a little trouble and was hoping to get some help!

What I have:
I have a 36 gallon bow front tank, Marineland Penguin 200 filter, Finnex Planted+ 24/7 LED light kept on 24/7 mode, Seachem flourite substrate, 2 amazon swords and a moss ball. No heater or fish yet (still cycling). Apartment is kept at about 75 degrees (it's hot out and the AC can't really keep up below that) so I haven't been worried about a heater, but I do have a EHEIM Jager 150W arriving tomorrow. Freshwater.

What I've been doing:
Last Sunday (the 7th), everything was put together. I used Seachem Prime to dechlorinate the water, and have been using Seachem Stability to establish my biofilter. Until Wednesday I was only using a 17W T8 light as it was all I had.

What has happened:
I had read online about using a liquid CO2 booster so purchased API CO2 Booster with everything. I hadn't read enough yet to realize that at my low light levels natural levels of CO2 in the water would be fine, or that some plants can be very sensitive to too much liquid CO2 supplement. Sunday evening I added some of my booster per the instructions, and Monday morning I added more (probably bad that it was so soon after, but I wanted to do all of my water additives in the morning from there on out). By Monday night, all 3 plants in my tank started getting a little brown around the edges of the leaves (edges of the fuzz in the case of the moss ball). I also measured the pH of the tank that evening, and found the next problem. It's around 8, and hard (I'm using strips, which I've heard are a little less accurate than test tubes). I tested my tap water, and it's also 8 and hard. I stopped using the CO2 booster completely on Tuesday, and as noted above, installed the better light on Wednesday. Today my plants seem to have even more brown than before. Have not changed any water since my initial fill.

Do you think the high pH level is causing this? Perhaps the CO2 booster stressed them, and the high pH is making it worse? Not sure how long the CO2 booster will stay in the water... Maybe it's all just been bad initial stress, and the plants will be fine given more time?

 

[plantnoob]

Hi there, welcome to the forum! I can tell you right now that the pH has nothing to do with this. I live in Houston where the tap water pH is between 7.8 and 8.2 and my plants do just fine. I doubt if the CO2 booster has much to do with it either. That can cause other problems, but leaves browning/fuzzy sounds like a different issue. You said you have Amazon Swords - did you purchase a plant that was grown emersed? If that's the case, some of the leaves dying off is normal. Your plant goes through an adjustment phase while it gets adopted to being grown immersed. My swords bought emersed took over 6 months to grow new leaves.

That said, stop with all the dosing. You have a lightly planted tank and Swords are hardy plants that don't need much to survive and grow. Your fauna should provide enough nitrates and the dissolved CO2 should be more than sufficient for a setup like yours. Cut the lighting to 8 hours a day or even less.

Post a picture if you can. Often times, I've seen people confuse diatom growth for rotting leaves.

Good luck.




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[Caliban07]

I agree mostly with plantnoob. Plants will take a bit of time to adjust especially if they were grown emersed which they often are.

I would settle on a medium light intensity from from the 24/7 instead of 24/7 mode and go up to 8 hours a day photoperiod max. For better results add the liquid carbon daily (recommended dosage) especially now you have gone from Low PAR to higher PAR.

The ph has nothing to do with it as noted. Some plants don't like liquid co2 but these are well documented.

You may not need additional co2 supplementation but it's not clear cut. Depends on your system. I find Amazon swords quite robust but they have higher co2 requirement than say Anubias or crypts and they are pretty feeble when left to compete with more efficient aquatic weeds.


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[plantnoob]

Agree that the plants would definitely benefit from co2. In the past it seemed like my plants did great when I was very consistent with the CO2 dosing, but when I got a bit sloppy with it for a week, I had a major algae bloom. My understanding was that it had to do with the fluctuation in CO2 levels. Also with the increase in CO2, the nutrient balance in the tank should also be optimal. And the light has to be sufficient too. I feel it gets much more complicated. I'm not sure it's worth going through the trouble for just a couple of swords.

But then, if you are somebody that is meticulous with this stuff and are willing to invest the time needed, this could work out great for you!


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[linford585]

Thanks for the responses!

Sorry for the confusion when I used the word 'fuzzy', I just meant in the case of the brown on the moss ball, because moss balls don't have leaves . That said, this morning before work I did a closer inspection and I think I do have some diatom growth, but I think it's new. I see flat brown areas (looks like the leaves themselves), which sounds like it might just be initial stress (they were packaged out of water, so probably grown not immersed), but I now also see brown fuzz actually on top of some of the leaves. What can I do to get rid of the diatom growth I have and inhibit future growth? I will upload a picture this evening after work.

As for the light, I switched it to its 'daylight' mode, and will only leave it on for 8 hours a day. Is the 24/7 mode on this light ever okay to use? It's one of the features I liked about this one.

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[plantnoob]

I'd suggest you don't. One, the fishes could use some rest. If you plan to have plecos, catfish or other nocturnal creatures, you definitely want to turn the light off for a good period of time. Even otherwise the rest of the fishes would appreciate some downtime. And then there is algae. Once you have fauna, there is excess nutrients in the tank and the algae would use the light to take over your tank. I'm not even sure why they would market it as a feature for aquariums!


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[Caliban07]

Thanks for the responses!

Sorry for the confusion when I used the word 'fuzzy', I just meant in the case of the brown on the moss ball, because moss balls don't have leaves . That said, this morning before work I did a closer inspection and I think I do have some diatom growth, but I think it's new. I see flat brown areas (looks like the leaves themselves), which sounds like it might just be initial stress (they were packaged out of water, so probably grown not immersed), but I now also see brown fuzz actually on top of some of the leaves. What can I do to get rid of the diatom growth I have and inhibit future growth? I will upload a picture this evening after work.

As for the light, I switched it to its 'daylight' mode, and will only leave it on for 8 hours a day. Is the 24/7 mode on this light ever okay to use? It's one of the features I liked about this one.

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As far as I understand the fixture starts off at its lowest light intensity setting and ramps it up through the the day then begins to fall back again towards photoperiod end. I can see the appeal but as far as plant growth is concerned (in a planted tank) you will have more success with a more steady approach. If you are not using co2 then switching the light to its lowest setting may alleviate the plants carbon requirement. The higher you go with light intensity the more carbon and other nutrients are required to satisfy photosynthesis.

As stated you may not need to add carbon for two swords but, as the plants grow they will require more co2 to maintain their tissue mass and health so even if you can get away without using it now you may need it in the future. Also tank size plays a big role as shallower tanks increase overall PAR and the fundamentals of co2 diffusion and delivery becomes more difficult to achieve.


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[plantnoob]

That makes sense with the 24/7 feature. I guess I just happen to be a control freak

I saw the pictures of your bowfront and I'll have to say it looks fantastic! It definitely has me motivated to try something like Excel again. Perhaps the time is now.

Cheers.


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[Caliban07]

That makes sense with the 24/7 feature. I guess I just happen to be a control freak

I saw the pictures of your bowfront and I'll have to say it looks fantastic! It definitely has me motivated to try something like Excel again. Perhaps the time is now.

Cheers.


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This is gas injection and liquid supplemented. Not sure if I need the liquid carbon. I'm going to wean the plants off it from today.

Even excel in a med/small tank with low/med lighting will make a vast difference. Be sure to follow the recommendations on the back of the bottle and take care when handling.

Edit: and thanks btw.

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[linford585]

So here are some pictures. First shows what I think are probably diatoms? Second shows what looks like the brown I was originally referring to. Seems like the consensus is just immersion stress, and they'll be fine over time? Third is of the moss ball. The moss ball came already submersed in water. I'm starting to see some brown fuzz on the water intake for my filter as well.

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[plantnoob]

Yeah plant settling down, will get better soon. Some diatom growth during cycling is normal. If your water does not have too much silicates, it will go away on its own. Could take a few weeks. If it does not go away and starts to spread and coat gravel, you'll need to test silicates in the water. Nothing to do about it at the moment. Just continue with cycling your tank.


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