Newbie needs help with tank

[frogsNpigs]

We're going to start a freshwater tank soon and I need help getting the right fish that are most compatible together. We're going to get somewhere between a 20-40 gallon tank. We definitely want angel fish. Years ago, we had angel fish and gouramis leaving peacefully together, but we want to add other fish as well. Any tips on what fish to get, what substrate and plants will work well are greatly appreciated.

 

[Tong]

I know one thing and one thing only about freshwater angel fish: they get to 6" or so. Get the 40 gallon tank.

 

[Guest]

i have seen angels the size of dinner plates.

 

[JustOneMore20]

Angels get huge...I wouldn't put one in anything less than a 20g high...and that's only for one. If you want a pair, I'd go with atleast a 29g or bigger. If you want to get a group, you could have 4 in a 55g (hey bigger is better). Alot of people have problems when they have 2 or 3 in a small tank because they can be aggressive with each other so the more space you can give them, the better. They also make smaller tanks look tiny...because they get so tall.

If you want a planted tank, regular small gravel (2-3mm) will work. If you want to get more technical about it you can get substrates made for plants, such as Eco-Complete or Flourite...check out the planted forum for more about them and plants.

For other fish, many tetras will work...go for the non-nippy ones (flame tetras, rummynose, head and tailights, black neons, lemons, diamond tetras....) the list goes on. Also, harlequin rasboras go well with angels also. You can also keep cories, loaches, and plecos with angels.

 

[justrelax]

i agree, get the largest tank you can for the angels. height is more important than length, i would think 40gal would be the minimum.
i have tetra's in my 55 with my angels and everyone gets along great. i'm told dwarf cichlid's make great angel companions too, if you want something with really nice colors.
i just switched to sand to the delight of all my fish, i highly reccomend it. if you can, get a cannister filter right off the bat; they're quieter and provide better filtration, imo, than other types.

welcome to aa!! best forum out there, you came to the right spot!

 

[joannde]

Hi FrogsNPigs - welcome to AA !

If you definitely want angels you should definitely go with the 40Gallon tank, larger if possible

There are lots of good resources on the web that can help you.

The first one I'm going to recommend is on "fishless cycling". Cycling a tank this way allows you to build your "good bacteria" colony to allow the conversion of ammonia to nitrites to nitrates, which ammonia being the most toxic and nitrates the least. It will also allow you to add practically your entire stocking list once the cycle is complete. If you cycle "with fish" then you're in for a very long haul of adding one or two fish every few weeks with lots and lots of water changes.
here's the link to the article (it says its for saltwater but it works for freshwater also)
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=15

The second one I'm going to recommend is a place where you can view all the types of freshwater fish that might be available to you. They list the water parameters (pH and hardness) that are in the natural environment for the species. They also list some compatible species, so you could look up Angelfish and go from there
http://fishprofiles.com

Once you come up with a list of fish that you think you're interested in post it in another topic and you'll receive great feedback from the folks in the forum

As for plants - that really depends on what type of lighting you have. You can grow a greater variety of plants under higher light, but then you need to consider fertilization dosing and potentially adding CO2. If you read the stickies in the planted tank forum you'll get alot of good information and you can post your followup questions there.

Sounds like you're going to have alot of fun with this tank I wish you well and lots of enjoyment

 

[ksfishguy]

Harlequin rasboras - six or more - these fish are fun to watch and are friendly and hardy. My thought on tank size is to get a bigger tank. I just setup a 42 gallon and already want a much larger tank. Electric yellow cichlids are a beautiful fish, but I am not sure if you could put them in with Angel Fish. Good luck and take your time!

 

[frogsNpigs]

Thank you all so much for the help, I really appreciate it. You all are a great group of people, I look forward to chatting with you as I go through the process of creating my aquarium. We just started looking at tanks, and so far the 20-40 gallons are in our price range. We are going to get the biggest we can find for an affordable price, so hopefully we'll stumble on a bigger tank that's not too expensive. I'll look into the links you provided, I'm excited to get this started!

 

[ksfishguy]

I would check local garage sales, neighbors, newspaper, etc. Alot of people have tanks/stands in storage. Some will give you the equipment if you pick it up. If you buy used, fill the tank up completely and let it sit for a day, check for leaks!
Have fun!!!

 

[JustOneMore20]

I agree with ksfishguy. I bought one of my 55g from an individual that ran an ad in the newspaper. Check the classifieds and also check online at Craigslist. Last week there were atleast 3 tanks around 60g that were each around $100....and stand included, in my local newspaper...great deals are out there. The tanks will be used (99% of the time) but used tanks are still ok to use.

 

[frogsNpigs]

We got a 29 gallon tank. There was a 125 gallon tank for $300 in the classifieds, but it seems to good to be true and I have no idea where I would fit it. It most likely has a leak for that price. We're setting our tank up and making sure the water is all cycled before getting the fish. I'm looking up what fish to get now. I'll update everyone with pictures when I get it all set up!

 

[joannde]

congrats frogsNpigs - I have a 29G myself. Of course I want a larger tank - and will have one someday , but for now I have the 29G and two 20G's that my husband found in the attic. I'll be setting of the 20Gs in September (need to get rid of my carpeting first and don't want to move the tanks during the process).

You'll like the 29G - its tall enough for the angel you want (but may limit you to one due to territories - you'll have to ask Angel keepers) but manageable enough to "get your feet wet" (pardon the pun !) into fishkeeping.

Good luck and keep us posted !

 

[frogsNpigs]

Thanks! I've decided to just get one angel fish after researching a lot. I don't have the room to have 3+, so he will have to enjoy the company of the other fish for now. I've made a list of the various fish I want, but I still have to see if the stores carry them. I hope they do, it will be such a beautiful tank! These are what I have in mind so far:
1 angel fish
2 Gouramis
Either
6 dwarf sucker catfish
or
3 bronze cory/albino cory (whichever type is available)
2 Bolivian rams
2german blue rams
4neon blue rainbows
4silver dollars

How does that sound? Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[JustOneMore20]

The silver dollars will get pretty big, so I'd leave them out. They really should have a bigger tank.

Cories need a bigger group...I'd say the minimum number is 4...but 6 is really better. I'd also pick either the bolivians or german rams. Most people don't keep them together because they could interbreed. Also they share the same area, so you could have territory problems.

If the rainbows are the only school you want, you can go with 6 or 8.

 

[joannde]

be careful with two gouramis - they can get territorial. Do a search on this forum for the words *two gouramis* and see what comes up - I know there have been several posts in the past but I honestly didn't pay attention since I"m not fond of gouramis myself (I had some years ago - too fiesty for my tastes).

Ottos (which I think is what you called dwarf sucker catfish) can be a little sensitive, so you might want to consider waiting until your tank is more established before adding them. They're also very small and you could do some of the other fish in the "or" section with them.

I LOVE cories - I have panda cories and they are by far the most entertaining fish I've ever seen.

I also like the dwarf neon rainbows - nice choice.

Silver dollars get quite large so I don't think they're a good choice since the angle can also get very large.

Rams are also sensitive and I've seen other posts that say that you should only get them from a breeder (rather than petstore) for better luck. You can do some searches on rams or GBR in AA to see other posts.

You've been doing alot of homework - thats the right thing to do

 

[frogsNpigs]

Thanks for the tips! I didn't realise the silver dollars got so big, they were in the same tank with the angels when I was looking for my tank, so that's where I got them from. I'll leave them out. I was going to add the dwarf sucker catfish or cories last so they had enough algea to feed on. Will one gourami be ok? I've only had gouramis once before when I was younger. We had two in a fish bowl and one killed the other. I want to try again now that they have loads more room, but if one will work, that would be fine.

For other fish, many tetras will work...go for the non-nippy ones (flame tetras, rummynose, head and tailights, black neons, lemons, diamond tetras....) the list goes on. Also, harlequin rasboras go well with angels also. You can also keep cories, loaches, and plecos with angels.

I saw a lot of different tetras. I read that small tetras were not good for angels because they are an easy target. Is that true? I saw the harlequin rasboras at the petshop and they are tiny, I'm not sure if they will work or not. What sizes are ok?

 

[joannde]

One gourami will work.

On the harlequins, they may be tiny but they make beautiful schools.

On the tetras - I think it depends upon the species. Neon tetras are definite no-no with an Angel as they are their natural prey.

 

[frogsNpigs]

We finally found a stand for the tank and it's now beginning cycling. We'll be starting the fish additions either Wenesday night or Thursday. The harlequin rasboras are beautiful, I would love to get a school of them if it will work out. I saw a lot of bigger tetras that I would like to add to my tank if they are ok. They are the larger kinds, bigger than the neons. I finally located the neon blue rainbows yesterday, I can't wait to add them to the tank, they will just glow with the combination of the light and turqiouse gravel. One more question: will any community fish be ok? It's my understanding that they are not agressive? I saw a lot that were very striking that I was considering adding to my tank. Also, when's the best time to add the plants to the tank? I've heard when you put the first fish in, or after since some require a small bit of salt that will kill the plant. Which is true?

 

[joannde]

WAIT !!!!

Before you add fish you want to make sure that your tank is really cycled. Add some fish food every day and see what happens to the ammonia and nitrites .... even with seeding material I don't think a tank could cycle in a week (but I could be wrong).

Have you read the articles on fishless cycling ? Below are two links that you should read (ignore the fact that it says saltwater - the same process happens in freshwater).

If the LFS told you to "just like it run 24 hrs .... 72 hrs .... a few days" they were speaking out of turn - its standard LFS talk. You'll soon come to realize you can't trust very many LFS' (you already saw that to some degree when you were checking out the silver dollars)

Here are the links:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=15
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/article_view.php?faq=2&fldAuto=21

Fishless cycling takes awhile (4 - 6 weeks) but cycling WITH fish usually takes longer and will require alot of water changes.

 

[frogsNpigs]

Alright thanks. I know how petshops can be, they know nothing about small animals, so I guess it's the same with fish. We have a testing kit that we test the water every day and have started the cycling.