No water changes for years?

[Esra]

That stuff looks pretty good.
EDven if you just used it as normal media and tested your nitrAte levels to make sure they were ok and still did a PWC when needed.

I know a lot of people don't mind doing the PWC's but we have water restrictions here anyway of conserving water is always worth a look.

Another thing to consider is the fact that you want to try and keep everything as stable as possible. You can have a tank with high PH, temp and nitrAtes but as long as it's kept stable most fish should be fine.

Water changes mean your nitrAtes go up, then down and repeat constantly.

Something like this might help keep that last factor as stable as most are able to keep the rest.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

My comments are in BLUE

That stuff looks pretty good.
EDven if you just used it as normal media and tested your nitrAte levels to make sure they were ok and still did a PWC when needed.

PWC's should always be done on a regular basis. It's just good maintenance.

I know a lot of people don't mind doing the PWC's but we have water restrictions here anyway of conserving water is always worth a look.

Even if it's just a small 15-20% PWC, small is still better than none.

Another thing to consider is the fact that you want to try and keep everything as stable as possible. You can have a tank with high PH, temp and nitrAtes but as long as it's kept stable most fish should be fine.

WRONG.... Yes, fish can be acclimated to high ph and temps, but nitrates is another story. Fish need to eat. When they eat, they create poop and pee. This means ammonia, then nitrite, then nitrate. Even if you use the previous media, we don't know for sure how well it really works to remove nitrate, and if it does, does it have the capacity to keep up with the number of fish you have? If not, without PWC's, nitrates will just get higher, and higher, and higher, til the fish start suffering from diseases, poor health, etc. And if too high, the stress will kill them.

Water changes mean your nitrAtes go up, then down and repeat constantly.

NO. PWC's means you maintain a LOW Nitrate level, which is healthy for the fish.

Something like this might help keep that last factor as stable as most are able to keep the rest.

 

[Esra]

Even if you use the previous media, we don't know for sure how well it really works to remove nitrate, and if it does, does it have the capacity to keep up with the number of fish you have?

[/quote]

Some people do a PWC every week without testing the nitrAte levels.

Some test their nitrAte levels and do one when it is required.
I am one if the second group.

What i said was you could use this media and continue to check your levels.
Just like now when they start to go up do a PWC.
This might just increase the time between changes.

Doing a PWC just for the hell of it when you have a 120G in a country that is in the middle of drought is just pointless.

I do one on average every week to 10 days.
Maybe this would make that ever 2 weeks to 20 days.
Either way it could save me about 30G of water a week.

Each to their own. I'm a big fan of testing new products to see if they do what they claim. Admittedly it's pretty rare that they do.

Imagine though if noone tested anything new.
The true holy grail for fish keeping is never having to bother the fish at all.
Set them up how they like it, feed them and that's it.

If they made a product that allowed that (and I'm not saying anyone has) and everyone skeptically did not try it it would be a pretty large waste.

 

[tyrel]

Sure do, here you go.

I don't think that is it. I think that the thing I'm talking about involves a blue filter media.

 

[Jchillin]

I think we are forgetting about DOC's and TDS that accumulate in the tank. It will wreak havoc on the tank's ph, which is where Old Tank Syndrome comes from.

I sincerely believe that folks do this in a very large tank, which can go quite a bit of time between changes, but at some point, their water will be changed.

 

[squeekness]

I read the link and it mentions salt costs money, is that to mean that this new fangled filtration system only works on salt water? The site wasn't clear. doing fewer water changes would be helful for me as I am getting older. I have a 110 gallon up high on a sideboy so it is eye level. I haul buckets. Hauling less buckets is appealing because I wonder if I will be able to keep my tank if I am growing older.

 

[Esra]

True.

I just think that with the money people would pay not to ever have to touch the tanks there would have to be someone working on it.

Alright hobbyists might not use it at first.
It would probably be ridiculously expensive but some of the tanks i see in Casinos and Hotels would be a pain in the neck to clean and change so I'm sure those would pay for it.

And then it gets cheaper and cheaper until the normal folk can afford it.

I know that like you mentioned there are problems at the moment, i just think they will all be overcome at some point.

 

[rkilling1]

Esra, if you want to conserve water by not having to perform PWC's, then you need to look into a planted tank. A non-CO2 tank with lower light can go for many months without a PWC. This is a lot better then adding any chemicals to your tank.

Diana Walstad is big on this type of tank. The fish and fish food, along with the substrate, feed the plants and the plants consume the fish waste.

doing fewer water changes would be helful for me as I am getting older. I have a 110 gallon up high on a sideboy so it is eye level. I haul buckets. Hauling less buckets is appealing because I wonder if I will be able to keep my tank if I am growing older.

Go and purchase a Python. That will save yourself time and energy.

 

[hashbaz]

That device is funny. For only $549 (plus replacement media I assume) you don't have to do water changes.

It would probably cost less to pay a plumber (or the neighborhood handyman) to make you a system that changes your water for you. Then you wouldn't have to worry about TDS or DOC. LOL

 

[Fishyfanatic]

Buy a python and you won't have to deal with buckets. No heavy lifting, even at an old age. Again, I'm curious if someone has tone tests to see what kind of long term effects the added chemicals would cause to fish. PWC is one thing that I would never skimp on. It's part of keeping the fish and tank healthy.

 

[7Enigma]

I have a story I've told on here a couple of times so far. When I was young my dad took me to get a 10 gallon fish tank. I picked up the tank, some colored gravel, a whisper power filter, a heater, a couple fake plants an an air stone. That same day I purchased 3 bubble-head goldfish and a common pleco. 2 of the goldfish and the pleco survived for over 2 1/2 years.

I was a child. Never heard of a water change, or ammonia, stocking levels, or potential fish sizes. I topped off the water, and probably overfed all the fish. Like the horrid whisper instructions said I changed out the entire filter media with activated carbon every month or two. Didn't own a gravel vac. The fish never outgrew the tank because they probably were all physically deformed, but they looked nice and happy when I fed them.

The moral of this story is that many people "successfully" keep fish in less than humane conditions, and many times these fish live long lives. This, however, is NOT a justification for doing it.

As for the tech itself, I can make you a filter today that will require no water changes ever for your tank. All you need is a time release compartmentalized cartridge that alternates and restricts activated carbon cartridges. AC is probably the best rid-all that I know of. The caveat is that it doesn't work for very long, and eventually it MIGHT leech contaminants back into the tank. A sectioned filter that would divert water from one mini-cartridge to the next over a week or month could very well accomplish what is being promised by this product, but the size required and cost would be prohibitive. Add in a bare-bottom tank with a high powered jet across the bottom into the filter intake (to pickup fish waste) and you have a perfect setup.

 

[DocOc]

I doubt anything can replace water changes unless your tank is huge and has tons of natural filters. I've heard of people doing less frequent water changes on large saltwater tanks with the Berlin Method, but nothing near a year.

I did some Wikipedia surfing and came across this site.
http://www.anammox.com/
They describe a process in which rare bacteria anaerobically convert ammonia and nitrite to nitrogen gas. They have patents and don't you forget it.
Maybe someday we will have another gadget to attach to the tank that performs this process for us.

 

[rkilling1]

I did some Wikipedia surfing and came across this site.
http://www.anammox.com/
They describe a process in which rare bacteria anaerobically convert ammonia and nitrite to nitrogen gas. They have patents and don't you forget it.
Maybe someday we will have another gadget to attach to the tank that performs this process for us.

They already sell 'gadgets' just like that. Here is one that works with anaerobic bacteria to convert NO3 to N2 gas.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produ...&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

 

[BrianNY]

When I started keeping discus I fought the pwc advocates. It simply didn't make sense to me to have to change so much water. I demanded reasons for the need and argued with the science. Ultimately I realized that a fish environment is water and water becomes polluted by the processes of life.

I conducted an experiment with 8 young discus. I set up 2 29g tanks each containing 4 discus. In one tank I changed 50% of the water daily. In the other, a third of the water every third or fourth day. It took less than 4 months for the discus in the 50% pwc tank to outgrow the 29g. They eventually grew to around 6-7 inches with nice fat foreheads. The discus in the other tank although alive and acting like normal discus became stunted. They maxed out at around 4 inches with razor thin foreheads and bulging eyes.

The single best thing anyone can do for their fish is change water. The more frequent and the larger the changes (to a point), the better. The greater the bioload of your tank the greater the need. There's a huge difference between a fish being kept alive and a fish thriving.

Is there a product on the market that reduces the benefits of pwcs? Maybe. But I doubt it would be as effective as something as simple as changing water.

 

[physicsdude]

I agree. Changing water is something that is totally necessary. In fact, even at these massive public aquariums with those terrible monster tanks housing great whites, mammoth eels, and corals, they use essentially the same system we use but on a much grander scale- and that includes partial water changes. So, it stands to reason that although someday the technology will exist to perhaps clean water just by adding some sort of chemical or a marvelous filter, making the water crystal clear, for now, for right now- partial water changes are still the best way to keep happy, healthy fish.

 

[Shelby_Tempo_GT]

I was a child. Never heard of a water change, or ammonia, stocking levels, or potential fish sizes. I topped off the water, and probably overfed all the fish. Like the horrid whisper instructions said I changed out the entire filter media with activated carbon every month or two. Didn't own a gravel vac. The fish never outgrew the tank because they probably were all physically deformed, but they looked nice and happy when I fed them.

great story.

I think you just described most of us as kids.

 

[O ALX O]

Water in lakes/rivers/oceans etc... is changed on a daily basis by evaporation-rainfall-snowfall-condensation. That to me is mother natures way of doing a PWC. Without this process not only will the smallest of microbes living in the water die off but everything that needs water to survive will begin to be eradicated if water is not filtered (changed). PARTIAL WATER CHANGES are a requirement if you are playing "Mother Nature" by keeping an aquarium!
This is just how I feel about the situation and is not me trying to impose something unto someone else.

 

[MyCatsDrool]

I dunno about all of you, but I would hate to be stuffed in a 1 br apartment with 8-10 other people, and have all the doors and windows closed, no toilet, unlimited supply of food, and no way to remove the waste food and body waste.

All they do is pump in some fresh air once in a great while, not change all the air or remove the trash, but just pump in enough to keep us alive.


I "could" survive it. I'd probably even look normal, being there is food and enough room to occasionally do a push up or two.

But I would not be happy at all. And it would be really gross, even if the food and waste decomposed a bit.

 

[cabezon]

what about hooking up a RO/DI filter directly to the tank?

 

[joannde]

RO/DI water doesn't contain any nutrients (minerals, etc) normally found in tap water. Its another part of the "goodness" of PWCs. I'm sure there's a way to plumb a system that would remove and replace water, but then there's the gravel vac issue . Until they come up with a mini Roomba removing the decaying matter from the gravel is still going to be a manual thing. Even in a planted tank most folks swing the wand back and forth over the substrate to pick up "the big stuff".

And now I need to think about that mini Roomba - would that be too cool or what ???