ODNO for 29 gallon
- Thread starter FMJnaX
- Start date
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FMJnaX
Aquarium Advice FINatic
czcz said:
Interesting! Thanks for that information. I suppost I could at least get some sheet aluminum and polish it up. Unfortunately, I don't have enough room in this hood for the nice reflector that minimized restrike. When I build my custom hood, I'll be building it in for sure. My tank is getting plenty of light to the bottom so I'm wondering just how it would look with full potential. 8O
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
FMJnaX
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Hmmmm. That'll be interesting with my current hood. I seriously have no space with these T12 bulbs. T8's should yield enough space though. Guess I'll have to head back to Lowes on Saturday.
FMJnaX
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I'll be heading to Lowes tonight for some polished aluminum and possibly some T8 bulbs.
I did a 12 hour temperature test yesterday:
BEFORE
Water temp before the lights went on was 74F.
Hood temp before the light went on was ambient of 72F
Bulb temp was probably 72F as well, but I couldn't get an exact reading.
AFTER
Water temp after 12 hours of light was 78F. I was honestly quite shocked. 78F is normally what it was with 12 hours of the stock lighting. ODNO appears no have no ill effect on my setup. Of course, I have the splash guard so that may help a bit.
Hood temp after 12 hours of light was HOT. My reading was 106F.
Bulb temp after 12 hours of light was.... I wasn't about to touch the thing. If the hood was 106F, I can only imagine what the bulbs were at. They were packing some heat though. My splash guard, at only 1/2" from the bulbs, was hot to the touch.
CONCLUSION
I NEEDED SOME COOLING!!!!!
In a frantic attempt to put together a cooling solution, I grabbed two 80mm standard computer case fans (20 CFM @ 12 dB).
Next, I needed an AC/DC converter. I looked EVERYWHERE. I had a computer power supply that I converted for an R/C NiMh battery charger station, but didn't feel like having to mount that somewhere.
The next best thing I had was an old power cord for an old 5.1 Cyber Acoustic computer sound system (threw everything out but the power cord). Unfortunately, this was a 120V to 15V; too high for these small fans. I tried anyway and they wouldn't turn (stupid 13.5V operating voltage).
The only other old power cord I had was for an old Nokia cell phone. Again, misfortune struck when I found out it was a 120V to 3.7V converter. 3.7V, however, does fall within the operating voltage of the fans so I guess I kind of got luckly.
I had my fans and I had my converter. The simple task of wiring them up was as simple as cutting off the stereo-type jack and to wire up the postive/negative leads to the fans. Both fans went to the same leads. Of course, I tested before I soldered and shrink-wrapped. All looked well.
I figured that I'm running these fans at 1/4 power, so simple calculations say that I should be seeing 5 CFM @ 3 dB. It's not a lot, but any little bit helps (as you'll see further on).
My next hurdle was trying to figure out where to put the fans. I thought about one on each side for horizontal air movement. The fans are much too large and I wouldn't get much prop wash (air movement). My hood has two pre-built vents on the top so I figured I would go "ghetto". I simply placed one fan on each vent, blowing air in. The fans over hang by about 1/8" on each side so I'm getting good air in to the hood.
Some of you may be wondering why I didn't set it up to have one blowing in and the other sucking out. Well, I tried this and the performance was actually worse than both blowing in. I guess the positive pressure is better than equal pressure. I also believe that because the fans don't cover about 1/2" of the vent slots, the cool air goes down and the hot air comes up through this opening. I confirmed by a simple hand test.
RESULTS
I did another 12 hour test. The beginning temps were the same as the first 12 hour test.
Water temp after 12 hours of light was 77F. 1F less than without the fans. This shocked me because there's NO way the cool air from the fans was making it past the hot bulbs, past the splash guard, and in to the tank. I think this is just a differential of the experiment.
Hood temp after 12 hours of light was warm, but significantly cooler. My reading was 88F.
Again, I didn't test the bulb temp after 12 hours of light. They would still be quite warm [hot].
I did a "hand test" on the top of the hood:
In between the fans (middle of the hood)
Before the fans, it was hot enough that I would have to move my hand after 30 seconds or so. With the fans, I was able to leave my hand on for nearly 3 minutes.
Right next to each fan, on the inside (middle)
Before the fans, it was the same as noted above. 30 seconds top. With the fans, it was just above ambient feeling. I left my hand on for 5 minutes and figured it wasn't going to get any warmer.
END CONCLUSION
Fans are needed, even if they are very low powered. I'm putting 10 cubic feet of air in the hood each minute. Imagine at the full 20 CFM! I don't want to cool too much because I've heard reports of cooling the bulb lower than peak operating temps will dim the bulbs. I DO know, however, that I need to purchase some 50mm fans and a true 120V to 12V converter. I will then put 1 50mm on each end; one pushing in and the other pulling out. This will give me a wind tunnel type effect in the hood, giving constant moving, cool air. I've got a lot of work to do...
I'm at work right now, but I'll update with pictures when I get home.
I did a 12 hour temperature test yesterday:
BEFORE
Water temp before the lights went on was 74F.
Hood temp before the light went on was ambient of 72F
Bulb temp was probably 72F as well, but I couldn't get an exact reading.
AFTER
Water temp after 12 hours of light was 78F. I was honestly quite shocked. 78F is normally what it was with 12 hours of the stock lighting. ODNO appears no have no ill effect on my setup. Of course, I have the splash guard so that may help a bit.
Hood temp after 12 hours of light was HOT. My reading was 106F.
Bulb temp after 12 hours of light was.... I wasn't about to touch the thing. If the hood was 106F, I can only imagine what the bulbs were at. They were packing some heat though. My splash guard, at only 1/2" from the bulbs, was hot to the touch.
CONCLUSION
I NEEDED SOME COOLING!!!!!
In a frantic attempt to put together a cooling solution, I grabbed two 80mm standard computer case fans (20 CFM @ 12 dB).
Next, I needed an AC/DC converter. I looked EVERYWHERE. I had a computer power supply that I converted for an R/C NiMh battery charger station, but didn't feel like having to mount that somewhere.
The next best thing I had was an old power cord for an old 5.1 Cyber Acoustic computer sound system (threw everything out but the power cord). Unfortunately, this was a 120V to 15V; too high for these small fans. I tried anyway and they wouldn't turn (stupid 13.5V operating voltage).
The only other old power cord I had was for an old Nokia cell phone. Again, misfortune struck when I found out it was a 120V to 3.7V converter. 3.7V, however, does fall within the operating voltage of the fans so I guess I kind of got luckly.
I had my fans and I had my converter. The simple task of wiring them up was as simple as cutting off the stereo-type jack and to wire up the postive/negative leads to the fans. Both fans went to the same leads. Of course, I tested before I soldered and shrink-wrapped. All looked well.
I figured that I'm running these fans at 1/4 power, so simple calculations say that I should be seeing 5 CFM @ 3 dB. It's not a lot, but any little bit helps (as you'll see further on).
My next hurdle was trying to figure out where to put the fans. I thought about one on each side for horizontal air movement. The fans are much too large and I wouldn't get much prop wash (air movement). My hood has two pre-built vents on the top so I figured I would go "ghetto". I simply placed one fan on each vent, blowing air in. The fans over hang by about 1/8" on each side so I'm getting good air in to the hood.
Some of you may be wondering why I didn't set it up to have one blowing in and the other sucking out. Well, I tried this and the performance was actually worse than both blowing in. I guess the positive pressure is better than equal pressure. I also believe that because the fans don't cover about 1/2" of the vent slots, the cool air goes down and the hot air comes up through this opening. I confirmed by a simple hand test.
RESULTS
I did another 12 hour test. The beginning temps were the same as the first 12 hour test.
Water temp after 12 hours of light was 77F. 1F less than without the fans. This shocked me because there's NO way the cool air from the fans was making it past the hot bulbs, past the splash guard, and in to the tank. I think this is just a differential of the experiment.
Hood temp after 12 hours of light was warm, but significantly cooler. My reading was 88F.
Again, I didn't test the bulb temp after 12 hours of light. They would still be quite warm [hot].
I did a "hand test" on the top of the hood:
In between the fans (middle of the hood)
Before the fans, it was hot enough that I would have to move my hand after 30 seconds or so. With the fans, I was able to leave my hand on for nearly 3 minutes.
Right next to each fan, on the inside (middle)
Before the fans, it was the same as noted above. 30 seconds top. With the fans, it was just above ambient feeling. I left my hand on for 5 minutes and figured it wasn't going to get any warmer.
END CONCLUSION
Fans are needed, even if they are very low powered. I'm putting 10 cubic feet of air in the hood each minute. Imagine at the full 20 CFM! I don't want to cool too much because I've heard reports of cooling the bulb lower than peak operating temps will dim the bulbs. I DO know, however, that I need to purchase some 50mm fans and a true 120V to 12V converter. I will then put 1 50mm on each end; one pushing in and the other pulling out. This will give me a wind tunnel type effect in the hood, giving constant moving, cool air. I've got a lot of work to do...
I'm at work right now, but I'll update with pictures when I get home.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
FMJnaX said:
I would experiment with that Idea as well.. The vents on top of the light strip might be enough that it would be more effective having positive pressure letting cool air in from the sides.. just a thought though..
Those are some hot bulbs!!
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
By the way I also think you have them wired 4X..
And I think you could build a bigger striplight that would be able to take you DIY reflector and your bulbs instead of a canopy.. another note.. You do know that the ballast can be wired remotely.. like down in the cabinet.. I would use 16 gage wire at least for that job..
The factory ballast on my 4 footer is inline with the power cord keeping it out of the striplight.. I dont know how they wire the smaller ones.. that well.. I forgot..
Im just trying to give you as many options as I can!! Great job so far.. I cant wait until I get my striplight and fire it up.. Im pretty sure Im going to order that big WH7 ballast for the job I just havnt made up my mind yet..
Cuz it would be more power!!!
And I think you could build a bigger striplight that would be able to take you DIY reflector and your bulbs instead of a canopy.. another note.. You do know that the ballast can be wired remotely.. like down in the cabinet.. I would use 16 gage wire at least for that job..
The factory ballast on my 4 footer is inline with the power cord keeping it out of the striplight.. I dont know how they wire the smaller ones.. that well.. I forgot..Im just trying to give you as many options as I can!! Great job so far.. I cant wait until I get my striplight and fire it up.. Im pretty sure Im going to order that big WH7 ballast for the job I just havnt made up my mind yet..
Cuz it would be more power!!!
FMJnaX
Aquarium Advice FINatic
I thought about a remote location, but it really doesn't get all that hot being on the outside of the hood. When I make the new hood, it will be wired remotely for sure though.
I also thought about the big workhorse (even just the 5).... but I figured I only have a 29 gallon so I could make do with the Sylvania one. It's made me happy so far. My DIY CO2 is about ready as well. I'm just waiting for the "glue" to dry. It'll be interesting to see how it holds up. I didn't buy any silicone or anything so I'm not expecting a good test run.
I also thought about the big workhorse (even just the 5).... but I figured I only have a 29 gallon so I could make do with the Sylvania one. It's made me happy so far. My DIY CO2 is about ready as well. I'm just waiting for the "glue" to dry. It'll be interesting to see how it holds up. I didn't buy any silicone or anything so I'm not expecting a good test run.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
Im talking about the WH ballasts after I make suggestions to for your setup.. I personally like the sylvania or GE T-8 ballast for a less than 29 or even a 55 project.. I like the WH for 75 or 90 projects... Sorry If I had been confusing..LOL 8O
The T-8 ballasts are good for 4 foot bulb projects I just think it would be better if you use T-8 bulbs with the bigger projects..
Im just wondering if the WH5 or the WH6 is also rated to operate 4-F40T12 liner bulbs.. I havnt found that kind of detailed information about them... I might have to ask the manufacturer..ACK! 8O
The T-8 ballasts are good for 4 foot bulb projects I just think it would be better if you use T-8 bulbs with the bigger projects..
Im just wondering if the WH5 or the WH6 is also rated to operate 4-F40T12 liner bulbs.. I havnt found that kind of detailed information about them... I might have to ask the manufacturer..ACK! 8O
FMJnaX
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Well, I was right about the "glue" not being up to the task on my DIY CO2. Luckily my wife was out at Wal-Mart so I had her pick up a tube of silicone. All is good now. CO2 is injecting nicely. I need a better method of getting it in the water, but right now I've got it running up my Penguin intake. Water level is higher than the outlets so I'm not getting surface agitation. I'm not running an air pump, but I've got one on standby if needed.
I didn't get around to finishing my reflector, but that's next on my list. Thus far, I've spend $48 and some change on my ODNO, reflector material, and DIY CO2; saving over $200 easily I'm sure. It's not professional or anything, but I'm pleased.
I didn't get around to finishing my reflector, but that's next on my list. Thus far, I've spend $48 and some change on my ODNO, reflector material, and DIY CO2; saving over $200 easily I'm sure. It's not professional or anything, but I'm pleased.
Jchillin
Aquarium Advice Addict
That's really good to hear.
Kudos to you FMJnaX!!!
G
Guest
Guest
WOW great thread. It just so happens my bulb on and AH Supply 96w PC recently burnt out. LFS wants 60 bucks for a new one 8O
Currently I'm at 2.5 wpg, but I'd really like to drop down to 1.75-2 wpg to keep algae at bay. Seeing how I have a Work Horse 5 ballast and AH SUpplies awesome reflector. Could I OD a 2' flourescent ??? It appears for 15$ (bulb and end caps) I could drop my wattage down to what I want and save money.
This is new to me. If anyone out there has any references and links to share. I'd certainly appreciate it. TIA
Currently I'm at 2.5 wpg, but I'd really like to drop down to 1.75-2 wpg to keep algae at bay. Seeing how I have a Work Horse 5 ballast and AH SUpplies awesome reflector. Could I OD a 2' flourescent ??? It appears for 15$ (bulb and end caps) I could drop my wattage down to what I want and save money.
This is new to me. If anyone out there has any references and links to share. I'd certainly appreciate it. TIA
G
Guest
Guest
FMJ,
I must say I commend you for sharing all of this info and your efforts, however I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish. If its a planted tank, goldfish are the worst for a planted tank. Seeing how your experamenting with DIY CO2 and more intense lighting, I'm guessing planted.
With all that light (and heat) your water temps are at 78'ish degrees. Perfect for tropical fish.
Continue to run the intensity of lighting in the pics you provided without any plants and your going to have one nasty algae bloom 8O
If you wanna keep goldfish. Install the original bulb(s) that came with the tank.
If you want a planted tank with the amount of light you've worked hard to build. Trade in the goldfish for a lot of stem plants. Your going to need them.
I must say I commend you for sharing all of this info and your efforts, however I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish. If its a planted tank, goldfish are the worst for a planted tank. Seeing how your experamenting with DIY CO2 and more intense lighting, I'm guessing planted.
With all that light (and heat) your water temps are at 78'ish degrees. Perfect for tropical fish.
Continue to run the intensity of lighting in the pics you provided without any plants and your going to have one nasty algae bloom 8O
If you wanna keep goldfish. Install the original bulb(s) that came with the tank.
If you want a planted tank with the amount of light you've worked hard to build. Trade in the goldfish for a lot of stem plants. Your going to need them.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
Mojo Troll....dont worry about FMJ.. the rumpkin isnt eating the plants and he's plenty experienced to deal with the added ammonia of a fancy goldfish at higher heat...
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
Mojo Troll said:
If Im reading your numbers right you have a 40 gallon tank..
If you want 1.7-2 wpg you will probably want two 2' bulbs and jump them at 3X to 4X.. the wpg rule really doesnt apply exactly to ODNO.. 3X with two 2' bulbs will get you about 80 watts worth of lumens.. you can always experiment with it..
FMJnaX
Aquarium Advice FINatic
greenmagi said:Mojo Troll....dont worry about FMJ.. the rumpkin isnt eating the plants and he's plenty experienced to deal with the added ammonia of a fancy goldfish at higher heat...
Yep, yep. My goldies aren't eating my plants. I like to think I've trained them well. lol. Actually, I've found that if I stick to a strict feeding schedule, they don't even rummage throught he gravel like typical goldies do.
I'm expecting them to taste some plants in the future, but I plan to be planted enough that I'll always have enough to fill in. I've got a 10 gal set up as a planting tank to take care of that.
So far, I'm keeping algae under control nicely. For the last 4 weeks, I've been running a 12 hour photoperiod. For the last week, it's been at ~2.5 WPG. Until I do notice a problem, I'm sticking with my schedule.
I am experienced enough to deal with the bio load of goldies (and now a Clown pleco). I'm pretty much stocked 100% on my 29 gal. I'm running 300GPH of filtration and I do 20-30% PWC's with a gravel vac every week. I hand feed my goldies twice a day (yes, they eat from my hand). None of my plants have chomped leaves... yet.
I do appreciate your concern though.
FMJnaX
Aquarium Advice FINatic
Mojo Troll said:
As greenmagi noted, you'll want to drive 2 24" bulbs at 3x; depending on your tank size. That's the great thing about ODNO. You can change your wattage on the fly (well, almost). You can do anything from stock to ~100% increase. I love it!
G
Guest
Guest
Yup, its a 40g. I think I'll try driving a couple of 24" and see what happens. Thanks
G
Guest
Guest
greenmagi said:Mojo Troll....dont worry about FMJ.. the rumpkin isnt eating the plants and he's plenty experienced to deal with the added ammonia of a fancy goldfish at higher heat...
Its not the ammonia I'm concerned with, nor the goldfish eating the plants. If you have a healthy planted tank, you'll never detect ammonia. The plants will consume it. I have'nt tested for ammonia on my planted tanks in well over a year. Phos and nitra I test every couple of days. Those are the problem causers for planted tanks.
What concerns me is Phosphates. In general goldfish are messy eaters and overfeed. Not to mention they poo like crazy. Which algae is it that thrives in high light, high Phos??? I can't recall.
greenmaji
Aquarium Advice Addict
A healthy planted tank will consume phosphate as well... Mojo Troll..
In fact you need to dose phosphate in a high light/CO2 injected tank.. the goldfish is doing him a favor in that case! LOL
In fact you need to dose phosphate in a high light/CO2 injected tank.. the goldfish is doing him a favor in that case! LOL
