Opinions needed on shrimp

[hjsvt]

I have a 10 gallon shrimp tank that I started back in the middle of April. It's heavily planted and sits in front of a window with morning sun. I don't have any other light on the tank. I have sponge filter running on the tank. I added the shrimp on 5/19. I purchased a bag of shrimp and plants at a local auction. I did fully cycle the tank with ammonia before adding the shrimp. I had a couple of snails to start but received a whole bunch more with the plants I added from the auction. I didn't mind them at first and my kids loved them. There were some of both pond and ramshorn snails in there. The shrimp have been doing great no losses until about a week ago. I was away for 9 days but my husband was here. I left him a couple of baggies with 1/2 an algae wafer and 3 sinking pellets to add every three days. Now my shrimp are dying off rapidly and I can't figure out what it going on. I tested my water when I returned because I had gone longer than my weekly water change schedule and I wanted to see where things were at. Because I was away the ferts did not get dosed as I normally would. When I returned, the temp was 74, TDS was 280, pH was 7.86, Nitrate 5.0, phosphate 0.25 GH 3 and KH 1.9. After water change before adding ferts, TDS 224, pH 7.64, Kh 3, GH 4, Nitrate 0 ppm, phosphate 0-0.25, ammonia 0, nitrite 0

So I have a couple of theories but these are my first shrimp so I don't have any experience to go with them. So if you have similar experiences with shrimp and could offer your opinions I would appreciate it. I read a bunch of articles but there seems to be a lot of conflicting information out there on plants, ferts, snail and food for shrimp. So I was hoping somebody has some real life experience to add.

First, the snail population in my tank was exploded! It is incredible. I understand why people consider these snails pests now. Everybody talks about overfeeding as the cause of exponential growth. But I'm actually wondering if maybe my shrimp are getting out competed for food. There is absolutely no visible algae in my tank. When I drop food in the snails cover it in minutes. I tried adding additonal food but the shrimp didn't seem interested and I didn't want to overfeed or pollute the tank. I'm really having a hard time believing I've overfed them when I never see them eat the food. Has anyone ever had snails out compete the shrimp for food?

Second, I use RO water because my well water is horrible. I add back in Equilibrium and Acid and Alkaline buffers. I had recently stopped adding the two buffers because their benefit to the pH didn't last so I thought I just go with whatever the RO water stabilized at. The KH started to drop lower than I wanted so the most recent WC after I returned I added some of the alkaline buffer back in to bring the KH back to about 3 from 1.9. Is this change what could be effecting my shrimp? Are they that sensitive to such small changes?

Third, about three weeks ago I notice a few hydras and with in a few days I had then all over the tank. So I treated the tank following this procedure
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/step-by-step-how-to-kill-planaria-and-hydra-231872.html but I only did 1/2 of the recommended dose to start and it was effective in removing all the hydra. I never had to dose more than that. I did a WC a couple of days after killing the hydra and then a couple of days later I away for the 9 days. Today I think I've lost 3 shrimp and may only have 1 or 2 alive. There are so many plants I can't ever see them all at once.

So any thoughts? Maybe a combination of things? I added a DIY snail trap today and I'm going to try to started eliminating most of the snails. I'd like to get more shrimp but need to figure out what is causing the deaths first.

Thanks for sharing any thoughts you might have.

 

[ScotJudd]

I do keep shrimp, Red Cherries, and am quite successful with them, but not an expert. They are breeding like mad though.
I think it unlikely that snails would beat shrimp to food if the shrimp are hungry but it does sound like you need to control the snail population, as you have said. Over feeding is a sure way to create a snail explosion.
Shrimp do not take kindly to sudden changes of parameters but yours didn't look to have created the problem.
I do think that your Gh and Kh is on the low side for shrimp. I keep both at around 6. I believe that too high or too low can cause shedding problems and the shrimp die.
My tap water is very soft, Gh and Kh less than 1. I add 2.5ml (half a teaspoon) of Equilibrium per bucket of new water, about 2 gallons or 10 litres, to raise Gh to 6 and 2.5ml of Bicarbonate of Soda to a bucket to raise Kh to 6. The higher Kh buffers the water nicely to stabilise Ph, which sits at around 7. I don't like Ph adjusters or buffers but I suppose Bicarb is acting as a buffer.
If you do decide to raise Gh and Kh then do it to new water at WCs and not to the tank thus slowly increasing Gh and Kh to the level you want.
I'm sure others will chip in, but I hope this is of some help.


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[icydeath]

Aragonite would help you raise the pH triangle if you want to.

Is it possible the tank temp is fluctuating? This may be due to the sun and the fact that it is heating up outside. Another idea would be that there was too much food in each bag, or that your husband didn't compensate for how much food was eaten like I assume you do.

 

[icydeath]

You don't want to use products to change gH, kH, or pH because they fluctuate. This might be what killed your shrimp. A natural way to raise it would be to use aragonite sand in a media bag in the filter. A good way to lower it would be to use peat moss in a media bag in the filter if that is ever necessary.

 

[hjsvt]

I do keep shrimp, Red Cherries, and am quite successful with them, but not an expert. They are breeding like mad though.
I think it unlikely that snails would beat shrimp to food if the shrimp are hungry but it does sound like you need to control the snail population, as you have said. Over feeding is a sure way to create a snail explosion.
Shrimp do not take kindly to sudden changes of parameters but yours didn't look to have created the problem.
I do think that your Gh and Kh is on the low side for shrimp. I keep both at around 6. I believe that too high or too low can cause shedding problems and the shrimp die.
My tap water is very soft, Gh and Kh less than 1. I add 2.5ml (half a teaspoon) of Equilibrium per bucket of new water, about 2 gallons or 10 litres, to raise Gh to 6 and 2.5ml of Bicarbonate of Soda to a bucket to raise Kh to 6. The higher Kh buffers the water nicely to stabilise Ph, which sits at around 7. I don't like Ph adjusters or buffers but I suppose Bicarb is acting as a buffer.
If you do decide to raise Gh and Kh then do it to new water at WCs and not to the tank thus slowly increasing Gh and Kh to the level you want.
I'm sure others will chip in, but I hope this is of some help.


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Thank you for you input. Even with my RO water and a KH of 2-3 my pH stays about 7.5-7.8. The RO water starts at about 7 but does increase over time in the tank. I think the water has quite a bit of dissolved CO2 and as the plants use it up the pH goes up. I think this must be the case because my plants will pearl after a WC but no other time. So I was trying to keep the KH low to help keep the pH low. I do use peat granules in my 29 community tank to help get the pH down. However, IME with my water I don't really think it has much of an impact. I had read on plant inverts that to breed shrimp they need acid soft water so that was why I was aim for the lower GH and KH numbers. No hope of acidic with my water though. I'm lucky to get 7.5. I am using a calibrated pH meter to test it so I do know those numbers are accurate. Thanks again for sharing your experience and what your doing that works. I appreciate it.

 

[hjsvt]

Aragonite would help you raise the pH triangle if you want to.

Is it possible the tank temp is fluctuating? This may be due to the sun and the fact that it is heating up outside. Another idea would be that there was too much food in each bag, or that your husband didn't compensate for how much food was eaten like I assume you do.

Thanks so much for the input. I have been keeping an eye on the tank temp. It doesn't seem to fluctuating more than a couple of degrees. So 74-76, do you think that's too much? We haven't had much sun the last month in VT and it's been very rainy. So I don't think too high a temp is a problem and there is a heater to maintain the temp when it cools off. If it does get hot over the next couple of months I did plan on using a fan. Other than while I was away, I have been keeping watch on the temp.

Too much food is a possibility but I was watching carefully before I left to see what would be consumed and based my feeding on that. The snails are devouring the majority of the food pretty quickly. Within a couple of hours.

You don't want to use products to change gH, kH, or pH because they fluctuate. This might be what killed your shrimp. A natural way to raise it would be to use aragonite sand in a media bag in the filter. A good way to lower it would be to use peat moss in a media bag in the filter if that is ever necessary.

I'm not trying to target a specific pH with the addition of the buffers. I'm trying to add back in the desired about of KH and GH. When I first started experimenting with the RO water I tried using the different ratios of the buffers to target a specific pH but it doesn't work with my water. My RO water has a pH of 7, I add alkaline buffer to maintain a KH of about 3 and then the acid buffer at 2:1 to keep the pH at 7. But at 7 days post WC pH has usually climbed up to 7.5-7.8. I think it's dissolved CO2 in the water because my plants will pearl after a WC and after it's used up the pH slowly rises. Even with peat granules in the filter in my 29 gal community tank my pH is always about 7.5-7.8 except right after a WC where it's usually 7.2-7.4. I am measuring it with a calibrated pH meter so I know those numbers are accurate. I realize the pH is fluctuating but is just the way my water appears to behave and there really isn't anything I can do about it. The strange thing is the shrimp were doing fine for several weeks. No losses. I've had no losses in my 29 gal fish tank and no disease either. So I wasn't really worried about the pH. I do think maybe leaving out the buffers in the WC and letting the KH drop a little was probably not good and was too much of a parameter change for the shrimp.

Thank again for your input.

 

[icydeath]

May I ask why you are running your water through RO? I believe RO water has a lower pH which affects kH and gH. Think about it like the distance = rate X time triangle. Change one and it changes them all. The reverse osmosis unit lowers the pH of your water which in turn changes the kH and gH. Whether or not this independently killed your shrimp is hard to say.

I noticed that you did point out your pH fluctuates and you are right this is due to a lack of buffers in the water. The lack of buffers in your water is due to the use of an RO unit. Try doing water changes without RO water. You may want to do a slow water change, like take out 30% of the water in the tank and add 10% in the morning, when you get home from work, and before you sleep.

 

[icydeath]

Dissolved CO2 lowers the pH of your tank. The added buffers are probably making your pH climb.

What is the pH out of tap?

 

[ScotJudd]

Just referring back to the OPs remark about temperature. My QT sits under an attic window and I keep a small overflow colony of RCS in there. They are healthy and breeding. The temp is set to 77f but during the day has risen to over 85f. The shrimp seem totally unaffected by these temperatures, although I wouldn't recommend it, I just can't avoid it.


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[bhill66]

I would recommend you try Salty Shrimp Minerals GH/KH + to replenish the minerals shrimp need. I used to have shrimp mysteriously die and started using Salty Shrimp and have had great success.


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