Oranda doing somersaults

[PzIkHo]

My oranda goldfish will be swimming along just fine, then he'll just suddenly stop moving his fins and drift forward. He starts to do this little somersault thing and soon enough he's either straight up and down, or completely bellly -up.

He'll drift through the tank like this for a few seconds and then right himself suddenly, and he's back off. Only he'll do this again in a few minutes.

any ideas what's going on?

 

[dkpate]

Is it his swim bladder? You can try feeding boiled, shelled peas, which are a laxative.
Your tank is cycled right? How often do you do water chnages?

 

[PzIkHo]

I have no idea bout the swim bladder. Will try the boiled, shelled peas.
Yes, my tank has been cycled, and I do a minimum of 25%/week as is recommended. Thanks for the help =]

 

[HN1]

What and how often do you feed? The peas are a good action to take now, but we need to figure out what led to it as well.

 

[PzIkHo]

He's in a community tank with predominately tropical fish (danios, EER's, stuff like that) as well as a BGK and an Eel, (which I'm about to transport to a bigger tank.) I feed the whole tank a mixture of tropical fish flakes and pellets.

The Oranda and the Black Moor also take to munching on the frog pellets I drop in for the dwarf frog.

And I feed the BGK and the Eel live bloodworms right before lights out, so he may grab up one of those.

It may be because he ends up eating more of those little frog pellets than the flakes or the pellets designed for the fish.

I'm aware that it sounds like I overfeed, but I do one little pinch of the flakes/pellets in the morning, and I drop a few pellets right on the frog at that time. Then right before lights out I throw a pinch of bloodworms in front of the BGK and the Eel, so everybody really only ends up eating once a day.

I've separated him in a little floating breeder tank (he doesn't seem infected with any contagious disease, so I didn't feel the need to completely isolate him in a separate tank altogether.) And I've thrown in three peas. So far he munched one up, but then he spit the skin back out, and he's just kinda nudging the other two without really doing anything.

 

[HN1]

Do you test your water? That is an incredible amount of fish for a 20G. As far as the feeding goes, most fish are totally fine with once a day or even every other day feedings.

 

[PzIkHo]

Yes, I test my water on a weekly basis for Ph and Ammonia/Nitrate levels. I also make sure to regularly vacuum the substrate to get rid of excess waste, though not often enough to remove too many beneficial bacteria.

I know I've got that tank overloaded, I had a little problem with taking in sick or dying fish my friends couldn't handle, while having no money to upgrade. I recently got a 55 gallon to get rid of some of the load, but it's going to take a while to cycle and what not.

I found out he wouldn't really eat the peas, just kinda suck them up and spit them back out. So I grabbed them, and I would squish one in front of him, letting all the juices and everything come out, and then he started eating all that. Now there's just a few pea skins left on the bottom, and he's getting around to eating those.
I've given him three peas so far, how many should I feed him, and how often?
And should I feed him anything else while he's on this pea diet?

 

[dkpate]

Boil and shell the peas before you feed them. Don't feed him anything else.

I hope you are planning to upgrade tanks again, that BGK will need 100 gallons, since they can get to 18 inches. I had one, and he grew from 4 inches to 8 inches in about 6 months.

 

[PzIkHo]

Yea I'm in the process of getting a 200 gallon tank, but until then I just gotta try my best.

So how long should I keep him on the pea diet? and how often should I feed him peas?

 

[dkpate]

Feed him ONLY peas until he is not bloated anymore. The other fish are fine with the peas too, all of my fish LOVE them.

Glad to hear you are getting a bigger tank! That will be a fun one.

 

[PzIkHo]

He's not bloated at all....that's the thing, he looks and acts completely normal, save the few seconds he's just floating around the tank.

 

[dkpate]

Yes, but because of the way their bodies are squished it causes them to bloat, which messes with their swim bladder, which causes them to swim funny/float/sink.

 

[PzIkHo]

So you think I should notice a decrease in size eventually, even if it doesn't SEEM like he's bloated?

 

[dkpate]

Well, just watch for his poo. He might be bloated inside, and since he is already a pudgy fish, you probably wouldn't notice.

 

[PzIkHo]

Saw poop for the first time in however many days, yesterday at about 5 p.m. It was only one little piece, and it was completely clear, hardly even visible...no more before or since.

 

[dkpate]

It can be clear from lack of food. Keep feeding the peas until it's green. Is he still swimming weird?

 

[PzIkHo]

He's been growing more and more lethargic the past few days, not really swimming at all, just sort of pseudo-lying on the bottom of the breeder tank.

Came home today after class and noticed red spots on his sides, near the tail. And there's some blackish splotches on his tailfins as well, though they're still intact and everything. He's not isolated in his own tank, but he is separated, so there's no way it's from being nipped.

Any ideas? I'm starting to get worried about the little bugger =[

I know I should have isolated him from the start, but while I have a little tank and a heater, I have no filter, and I didn't want to put him in water that would end up high in ammonia without doing a bunch of stressful PWC's. So my question is this: Should I put him in there anyway, and just keep the ammonia levels down by doing small water changes throughout the day, or just keep him in the community tank and risk that whatever he may have could be contagious?

 

[dkpate]

Black on the fins sounds like fin rot. Clean water would be best, and I would do small water changes every day. Since you don't have a filter, he might not be getting enough oxygen, and the filter will HELP with the ammonia, not make it worse. Having no water turbulance means no oxygen in the water. Do you at least have an air stone you could put in there?

 

[HN1]

Sorry... but I think the fish is stressed in an over and miss stocked aquarium and will eventually succomb to something unless the core issues are taken care of. Hope that doesn't sound harsh, it's truly not meant to. JMO.

Been there, done that... still trying to pay back the fishy karma.

 

[PzIkHo]

Black on the fins sounds like fin rot. Clean water would be best, and I would do small water changes every day. Since you don't have a filter, he might not be getting enough oxygen, and the filter will HELP with the ammonia, not make it worse. Having no water turbulance means no oxygen in the water. Do you at least have an air stone you could put in there?

I think you may have misunderstood me... He's in the big tank right now, where I do have a filter. I just meant I don't have a spare filter to set up a hospital tank, which is why I've just separated him in my little floating breeder tank. Because I didn't want the ammonia to get so high in his hospital tank with no filter I was wondering if I should just keep him in there with the other fish, where he does have a filter, or put him in my hospital tank without a filter and do PWC's every day.

BTW just got done testing my paremeters.

pH was a little low...around 6.4 or so, so I bumped up to 6.6 and will check again tomorrow.

Ammonia and NitrItes were both 0.0 ppm

No way to test for NitrAtes, though I do regular water changes, and have been even more so since Oranda got sick.

So if it's fin rot, what should I do?