overly buoyant goldfish

[goodfish42]

Hi, I'm new here. I recently inherited two goldfish and a very small tank (over the weekend a friend of a friend needed to leave town quickly and was giving away his two goldfish and their one-gallon aquarium). One of the goldfish seems to be having some trouble as of tonight. They were fine for the first day or two, but now the smaller one is having buoyancy problems. He keeps swimming downward and floating back up. He's very active and alert, but I think he must be getting worn out! :-( When he gets to the top of the tank he goes sort of sideways and then swims down quickly again.

I don't know the water parameters and such. I have ordered one of those tester kits online but it won't get here for a few days. When the fish arrived (on Sunday) the tank was half full so I refilled it with filtered water and put in some AquaSafe drops and some Stress Zyme drops (as much as the bottles said I should use). I have been feeding them Top Fin Goldfish Flakes (a very small half-pinch in the morning and the same at night). I read somewhere that you should soak the food but I didn't know that before so I'd just been dropping it in. I made sure the water was the right temperature and everything. Today after the fish started acting funny I changed half the water again (I meant to do a quarter tank but I'm new to siphoning) and put more of the Aqua Safe drops in the new water. The other fish is having no trouble.

Any suggestions?

By the way, I'm not planning to keep the fish in the little 1-gallon tank -- it's way too small. I bought a nice 6-gallon tank (seemed big enough -- the goldfish are each about 6cm long) and new gravel and plants etc and I'm planning to start preparing the new tank tomorrow. If you have any advice on preparing a new tank please share.

Oh and my profile picture is the sick fish before he was sick (it's an action shot).

-Katie

 

[Andos99]

This probably isn't going to be what you want to hear, however, you may want to consider returning the goldfish to your local pet store and returning your 6 gal tank for a refund if you haven't opened it already. Goldfish can achieve very large sizes (12+ inches) and are messy eaters. 6 gallons is just not enough space to raise and successfully keep goldfish. You seem to care very much about these fish and that is awesome of you, but goldies are not a good fit. You could always keep your new 6 gal tank and try something else like a few small tetras, guppies, or minnows. Good luck.

 

[goodfish42]

Sorry, but I don't think any of these options are good ones. The fish didn't come from a pet store, so I can't return them, and even if I did give them to a store they're feeder fish -- they certainly wouldn't be better off there.

I may be able to manage a 12 gallon tank, though even that would be a bit of a stretch. The fish are quite small at the moment. I'm perfectly willing to get a bigger tank as they grow, but I am planning to leave the country in six months anyway, at which point they'll need a new home regardless.

Anyway none of this addresses the buoyancy problem I was asking about. An update on that: the fish is no longer bobbing to the top, but now he seems to be a little too heavy -- he's using his pectoral fins a lot more than the other fish to keep steady and when he stops flapping them he falls a bit. Is this indicative of a problem, or is it normal for there to be some variation in buoyancy?

 

[DepotFish]

You can put the flakes in a little cup of water for a minute then pour them in the tank. The idea is that the flakes will sink quicker and then the fish won't swallow air when they eat them. See if this works.
The fish will do fine in a 6 gallon at this length, they just need a 20% water change every other day. Gravel is an issue though, goldfish like to pick up gravel when they are hunting for food. You don't want something small enough that they can swallow it.

 

[coolchinchilla]

Hello Katie and welcome to AA!

First let me affirm your efforts to take care of these goldfish. That's great. 8) Recognizing that they need a larger tank is a great step to good care for your new fish. It's true that goldfish get big. I do encourage you to buy something bigger for them, but rescuing them from a 1-gallon tank is a huge step forward. It would be best if the tank had a filter. Even though goldfish are coldwater fish, they still do best with a fairly constant temperature. If you turn down your room temp during the night like I do, then get them a heater. Your fish will be eternally grateful if you change 50% of the water every few days. I've included a couple goldfish website links below for more guidance on goldfish care.

As far as the boyancy problems you describe, I'd expect it's a problem with either constipation or their swim bladders. It's a common problem with goldfish. When the fish eat flakes or pellets at the surface of the water they take in a fair amount of air. The extra air in their gut is what causes the boyancy problems.

Briefly, I'd start by trying to clear the fish's gut. Stop feeding them for two to three days. Then give them some green peas. I use frozen peas that I hold in warm water to thaw them. You also need to remove the covering so it's just the green mushy pea stuff on the inside.

To prevent boyancy problems always soak the flakes in tank water before putting them in. Also periodically give them some peas.

Swim bladder problems (koivet.com) koivet.com

Goldfish facts: Glimmering goldfish

Good luck.

 

[jsoong]

Ok first correct the immediate problem, then we can debate the merits of goldies in small tanks.

First, what kind of gold are they - single tail or the fancy double tailed? What is the precise temperature?

Fancy golds are prone to swimbladder problems, with the buoyancy symptoms you have described. There are many different cause of swimbladder problems, some easily treated, some not.

Easiest to treat are gut problems - swallowing air in food, or constipation. This is also the commonest, so I would start with that first.

To prevent - feed sinking food. If you have flakes, soak in a small amount of tank water till it sink before feeding. Also, a weekily feeding of vegetables will help prevent problems.

To treat - you need to get the fish to clear its gut. First I'd feed some peas, which is a good laxative. Blanch peas in a bit of water, then skin <squeeze the inside out & discard the skin>, chop up a bit & feed to the fish. repeat a couple times a day for a day or 2. You can also increase the water temperature to mid to high 70's at this time. Fancy golds do better at somewhat warmer temp, and the warmth will speed up metabolism & bowel movement. If you have a common, stay in low to mid 70's.

Give it a day or 2, if the peas & temp doesn't work, you can try some epsom salt. If the fish is big enough to swallow a whole pea, feed a single grain of epsoms salt buried in the pea. Otherwise, you will need to do salt bath. You can add 1/4 teaspoon of epsom's salt to 5 gal of water for a few days and see if that helps.

Another cause of swimmbladder disease is high nitrates, which is quite likely in such a small tank. Because you have just inherited the tank, it is unwise to do wholesale water change & shock the fish too much. Far better to do daily 25-30% changes to bring the levels down slowly. Since you don't have a kit yet, I'd suggest doing daily 25% changes for now. If you kit shows that the levels are not coming down, then increase the water change. With a 1 gal, you'll need daily water change permanenetly. With a 10 or 12, you can prob get by with weekly changes when the fish are small, but soon you'll be doing daily pwc as the fish grows <That would be a sign that you need a bigger tank.> With goldies in small tank, you need to do frequent monitoring & pwc to keep on top of parameters to keep fish healthy.

Personally, I'd say that 2 fancies in a 10 is pushing it, but doable (for a few years) if you are deligent with water parameters. If you have a common, I'd suggest finding it a pond.

 

[goodfish42]

Oh dear, now the other one is leaning to one side. I guess the term is "listing?" But not much, just slightly. He may have been doing this all along and I just didn't notice.

The first one seems to have his equilibrium back.

I need to come up with names for these guys. There's the little one and the big one. Size difference of maybe half a centimeter. The little one is much more active (the word may be "spastic") while the other is content to sit around and wait for something to happen. They're both very sweet though.

Okay, so the plan is to not feed them for a day or two and then give them some peas and in the future always soak the food. I tried soaking the food the other night -- I dropped a little in a water-bottle cap and put some water in that and made sure everything sank and then I dropped the wet food in the tank. Seemed to work all right.

And I need to change the water 25% daily, and prepare a new tank soon, and when the kit arrives check for nitrates. Okay.

I don't have a thermometer for the tank -- I'll look for one next time I'm at the pet store. The water is just the ambient temperature I guess, which is roughly constant since the apartment I live in is centrally heated and I have no control over the heating.

The fish are common goldfish, with single tails. You can get a vague impression from my profile picture I guess, or what you can see in the picture of the tank.

The gravel is made of little rocks, each about half as big as one of the goldfish.

I'll see about the 12-gallon tank. I think I can still take the 6-gallon one back. I don't have access to a pond right now. Oh -- the 12-gallon tank I'm looking at and the 6-gallon one I already have are both Eclipse System tanks by Marineland. So they have filters and such all built in... I've heard good things about them.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[jsoong]

I have bad new for you .... commons don't do well in small tanks or bowls. I know people keep goldies in fishbowls, but they tend not to live too long (months). People with goldfish bowls treat their goldfish as disposables, getting new ones every few months when the old one dies. When in actual fact, goldies can live 10 or more years in a proper enviroment. <OK end of rant.>

As a rule, commons don't have the same problems with swimbladder & digestion problems compared with the fancies. When you see swimbladder problems in commons, that indicates something more serious. I would suspect a water quality problem at the top of the list.

I am not saying that you should not try the peas, etc. But I am not sure if that would help.

Common goldfish grows to over 12" long, and they like large area to swim in, so even a 10 gal would be too small. If you are keen on keeping those two, a minimum of 20 gal is needed (and a pond much preferred). Note that I am not discouraging you from giving the best care you can to your fish. If you can't have a big tank .... anything is better than a bowl. But I do have to warn you that they would out grow a 6 or a 10 in less than a year & you'll be struggling with water parameters constantly in such a small setup.

 

[goodfish42]

The fish both seem to be doing well now. They're swimming around all happy and active and not floating or sinking. They liked the peas.

So, what have I learned?
1) With a few very dedicated exceptions, really no one ought to keep common goldfish.
2) The entire goldfish-as-low-maintenance-pets industry is one big lie, and a goldfish is actually significantly more difficult to keep happy and healthy than, for example, a small dog.
3) Goldfish are, on the whole, miserable creatures put on this Earth to suffer endlessly at the hands of a human population largely ignorant of the fact that anything is wrong.

It's really #3 that's the kicker. Because now I have these goldfish, and they live with me here in my tiny little apartment and there's really not a heck of a lot I can do to make them happy. I can't possibly maintain a 20-gallon tank where I live, on my graduate student salary. I don't have a pond, and all my friends are in the same situation I am in terms of ability to keep goldfish as pets. Giving them to a pet store only makes matters worse, as I have witnessed with my own eyes goldfish exactly like my little friends in 15-gallon tanks with several dozen companions.

So my options are rather limited. In an effort to in some small way lessen the inevitable suffering of my poor little goldfish friends, I have obtained a 12-gallon tank, and I am currently preparing it to be at least a step up in the goldfish world. I will do everything I can to keep the water as nice as possible and to keep the fish as healthy as I can make them. If they grow significantly bigger before I leave town in the fall, I'll find a way to make some better arrangements, and when I do have to leave town, I'll make sure that the new guardian is aware of the points listed above.

I think I'm going to name them Jean Valjean and Marius.

Okay, enough of this, time for a water change.

 

[jsoong]

I do appreciate your desire to do the best you can for your fish. Even though your setup is not perfect, it is better than the vast majority of fishbowls, and I do think that your fishies will be happy with their new digs. Your fish are better & I suspect that has to do with your diligent water changes and improvment in qater quality.

I agree that the "low maintanance goldfish" industry is a big lie. In any good aquarium book, you'll find that goldfish are not listed as beginners' first fish. They are only low maintanance in the sense that they will survive under poor conditions long enough so the fish seller will not get blamed.

Gold fish are originally bred for ponds. Fancies originally were developed for royalties & are pampered pets. A typical fishbowl in those days are 2-3 foot wide and are attended to by a small army of servants. Even today, goldies fanciers do pamper their fish.

One more point I like to raise to make the transition to bigger tank less stressful - If you do not understand cycling, please read the appropriate articles in the article sections. <Apologies in advance if you are actually experienced fishkeeper.> To maintain the cycle & avoid stress, move everything from the bowl to the new tank (filters, rocks, etc.). This is to transfer all your nitrifying bacteria to the new setup. Don't remove anthing untill the cycle is established in the new tank - usu. 4 weeks or so. Best to monitor water parameters daily till cycle is established.

Another thing to consider is water parameter in the fishbowl might have drifted far from your tap. If you suddenly transfer the fish to clean water, that would still be a shock. Ideally, you would check the fishbowl water to see how far the parameters had drifted to guide in the time needed for acclimatization. A seat of pants approach would be to do 25% PWC for a week or 2, at the end the water would be close enough to tank for transfer to be stress free.

 

[coolchinchilla]

The fish both seem to be doing well now. They're swimming around all happy and active and not floating or sinking. They liked the peas.

So, what have I learned?
1) With a few very dedicated exceptions, really no one ought to keep common goldfish.
2) The entire goldfish-as-low-maintenance-pets industry is one big lie, and a goldfish is actually significantly more difficult to keep happy and healthy than, for example, a small dog.
3) Goldfish are, on the whole, miserable creatures put on this Earth to suffer endlessly at the hands of a human population largely ignorant of the fact that anything is wrong.

LOL Yep. You're a fast study! You've gained vast wisdom compared to the rest of the population keeping goldfish. Glad they liked the peas. A 12-gallon tank will seem like they've been placed in a lake compared to a 1-gallon tank. They will be thrilled to stretch out so much. A 12-gallon will do them much good. Enjoy. 8)