Ph issues

[Medic493]

Hello, I'm a new aquarist and I am having issues keeping my ph above 7.0 and was hoping to get some advice.

Just some background. It's a new 55 gal. Freshwater and it just finished its first cycle and had its first water change about two weeks after. Its stocked with a baby Jack Demesy, a baby Oscar, and two Silver Dollars, along With two plecos. Anyway I am having to treat the tank with ph up, everyday just to maintain a normal ph. Is this normal? I wasn't sure if I was missing something.

Also, the Oscar developed ich, which I understand is pretty common, I am treating the tank with methylene blue, (which is perhaps contributing to the ph issues) but I was having the ph issues prior to treating the tank. Any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks.

 

[TotallyCoral]

Hello!

In my opinion, fish can adapt to almost any PH level as long as it's constant and stable. Do you know what your PH would be without dosing PH up? I've always used a bag of crushed coral as a PH buffer in my filter to prevent any fluctuation. However, understand that dramatic PH swings are harmful to fish and you'd probably be better off if you hadn't started dosing PH up in the first place. If you really care about getting the PH above 7.0 then cc seems to be the best option. Hopefully someone else can chime in as well. Hope this helps!

 

[George9]

What is your ph now? It's best to not screw with the ph, the fish can adapt to a l higher/lower ph. As long as it's stable.

If you really want it above neutral, use a bag of cc* in the filter, it buffers the water and keeps it stable.

*crushed coral

 

[Medic493]

Hello, I'm a new aquarist and I am having issues keeping my ph above 7.0 and was hoping to get some advice.

Just some background. It's a new 55 gal. Freshwater and it just finished its first cycle and had its first water change about two weeks after. Its stocked with a baby Jack Demesy, a baby Oscar, and two Silver Dollars, along With two plecos. Anyway I am having to treat the tank with ph up, everyday just to maintain a normal ph. Is this normal? I wasn't sure if I was missing something.

Also, the Oscar developed ich, which I understand is pretty common, I am treating the tank with methylene blue, (which is perhaps contributing to the ph issues) but I was having the ph issues prior to treating the tank. Any advice would be greatly appreciated thanks.

First off, thank you for the reply. I have never heard of the crushed coral but I will certainly look into it. As of right now if I do nothing the ph will drop and the tank will become acidic at 6.0 or less in just a matter of days, and the rapid fluctuations was my main concern.

I have read that the ph will tend to drop during the evening hours, so I will see if it will raise during the day.

Im wandering if the fluctuations in ph is the main cause of increased stress and further cause of the ich problems I'm having as well. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

 

[George9]

First off, thank you for the reply. I have never heard of the crushed coral but I will certainly look into it. As of right now if I do nothing the ph will drop and the tank will become acidic at 6.0 or less in just a matter of days, and the rapid fluctuations was my main concern.

I have read that the ph will tend to drop during the evening hours, so I will see if it will raise during the day.

Im wandering if the fluctuations in ph is the main cause of increased stress and further cause of the ich problems I'm having as well. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

Then I think some crushed coral is definitely needed. It will keep the ph nice and stable.

The fluctuations could definitely contribute to the ich because when the ph fluctuates, the fish get stress and they are weaker allowing them to get sick more. I'm not sure if you mentioned this but how are you treating it?

Edit-just found the treatment. Are you swing any results from it?

 

[Medic493]

Right now I'm treating the tank with methylene blue, I raised the temp in the tank to 80 as well.

Will adding crushed coral effect the ich treatment? And does it matter how much crushed coral I put in the filter? Thanks

 

[George9]

Right now I'm treating the tank with methylene blue, I raised the temp in the tank to 80 as well.

Will adding crushed coral effect the ich treatment? And does it matter how much crushed coral I put in the filter? Thanks

I do not think it will effec the treatment. Start out with just a little crushed coral in your filter (Mayr a couple teaspoons) then test in an hour and see where ph is. Then keep adding/taking crushed coral out depending on were the ph is. But a little at a time.

 

[Medic493]

I will keep that in mind.

Again I'm kind of new so bare with me, as far as treating the ich with the methylene blue, I followed the original dose. I have been adding a little at a time to keep the tank a light to medium shade of blue to treat the ich. Is there a high risk of over medicating?

 

[TotallyCoral]

+1 on the cause of the ich possibly.

And no problem! We're here to help! I wouldn't think the cc would have any effect on the medication, however, yes I believe it does matter how much to put into the filter. From my experiences, even the littlest amount is enough to stabilize Ph. Right now, I'm using HALF a mesh bag of crushed coral that is made for a 30 gallon aquarium for my 46 gallon aquarium and it works PLENTY. It raised and stabilized my Ph from 6.0 to 7.6 during my fishless cycle. Awesome product. However, remember that dramatic Ph swings are deadly to fish... That's why I did mine in the beginning when no fish were present. In your situation, a very gradual introduction of coral would be best, to allow the fish to adapt. But like I said, even the littlest amount of cc can buffer the water just fine.

 

[George9]

I will keep that in mind.

Again I'm kind of new so bare with me, as far as treating the ich with the methylene blue, I followed the original dose. I have been adding a little at a time to keep the tank a light to medium shade of blue to treat the ich. Is there a high risk of over medicating?

Not sure on overmedicating but if you are following the instructions on the bottle, you'll be fine. Dot worry about the shade of blue in the tank-it's the dosing instructions that matter

 

[Medic493]

Not sure on overmedicating but if you are following the instructions on the bottle, you'll be fine. Dot worry about the shade of blue in the tank-it's the dosing instructions that matter

Fair enough.

I will start off by slowly fixing the ph and I'll go from there.

Thank you guys very much! Probably just saved my fish.

 

[George9]

Good luck! Let us know how everything goes

 

[Medic493]

Will do. This site it proving to be invaluable .

 

[TotallyCoral]

No problem!

Also on a side note, are you sure you've fully cycled your tank? Which method have you used? The only reason I'm asking is because Ph swings are VERY common when cycling an aquarium. I've learned that the hard way. This is because the bacteria you wish to colonize use the Ph to grow and flourish (Ammonia>nitrIte>nitrAte). As a result, a decrease in Ph (like you're experiencing right now) can be often seen. Through my experience, this was exactly why my own Ph began to drop. However, with the addition of cc my cycle ran smooth once more and everything resorted back to normal!

 

[Medic493]

I did a fish less cycle. I went to my local pet store and they gave me a few dead feeder fish. I waited about 3 1/2 weeks. The ammonia level got up to 1 ppm, then dropped to 0. I was watching the nitrite level as well. It went up to 2ppm. The I added fish when that dropped to 0.

It would make sense if I did add fish too soon and thus continued the cycle.

I did do my first water change two weeks after, and now that I added the methylene blue, I think all my nitrites could be wiped out. Hmm

 

[TotallyCoral]

Hmm, yes that may actually be the case with the Ph problem. Adding fish too soon may cause you to experience another cycle (this time fish-in), resulting in Ph swings. But I'm not too sure if methylene blue could've possibly wiped out all your bacteria in the first place... However, checking your levels daily (Ph, ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte), performing partial water changes based on your levels, and the addition of some crushed coral to help keep your Ph stable, you could certainly complete an unintentional fish-in cycle no prob. What are all your other readings at the moment other than your Ph?

 

[Medic493]

Hmm, yes that may actually be the case with the Ph problem. Adding fish too soon may cause you to experience another cycle (this time fish-in), resulting in Ph swings. But I'm not too sure if methylene blue could've possibly wiped out all your bacteria in the first place... However, checking your levels daily (Ph, ammonia, nitrIte and nitrAte), performing partial water changes based on your levels, and the addition of some crushed coral to help keep your Ph stable, you could certainly complete an unintentional fish-in cycle no prob. What are all your other readings at the moment other than your Ph?

Well I was reading the back of the methylene blue bottle and it stated it could cause your nitrite levels to drop. In fact, they instructed me to take out the carbon filters while I treated the tank, because the carbon would mitigate the methylene blue, and the methylene blue will kill all the bacteria in the tank. (I'm assuming the good bacteria too).

As of right now. Ph. 6.0. Ammonia 0.25 Nitrites 0. Nitrates 40.

While I learned that ammonia = nitrites
I was also told to use ammo lock for the ammonia while using methylene blue, because it will wipe out the nitrites until I put the carbon filters back in. The nitrites are still in the filters so I'm hoping when I put them back in I wont have to go through another cycle. But like you said, i may have to do a fish in cycle. We'll see.

 

[TotallyCoral]

Yes, that is correct about the carbon filters. I actually never even use carbon anymore after learning that it can actually do more harm than good (unless removing meds).... longer story about that. But by looking at your levels, you may be looking to perform another PWC soon to lower your ammonia to 0ppm and nitrAtes to equal less than 20ppm. What do you mean by you learned that ammonia = nitrItes? As for the ammo lock and methylene blue I have no clue. I'd just follow the instructions toward the medication and go from there. Realize that overdosing the meds could in turn, get all your other fish stressed/ill as well. So following the directions is key when medicating with methylene blue. If you end up overdosing you can always perform a PWC to remove the excess meds from the water.

 

[Medic493]

Yea I think a PWC is probably the way to go in this situation.

I've only heard of the carbon filters, is there another type you would recommend? As of right now I am running two Emperor 400 with the pre filled carbon filters.

As far as the Ammonia = nitrites comment, I was just referring to that ammonia will eventually be broken down by the Nitrites, just like in the initial cycle. I do understand ammonia is a bad thing and you don't want it in your tank, but the only way to get nitrites is with ammonia.

 

[TotallyCoral]

Oh, okay that makes sense about the ammonia to nitrite conversion. And yes that is correct

Hmm, I'm not very familiar with the Emperor 400 but I'm assuming you're using just carbon cartridges in it yes? If so, I'd entirely avoid using carbon activated filters unless you wish to remove meds or tannins from your water. Otherwise, carbon isn't really needed in the aquarium and you're probably better off just replacing it with some other ceramic media to increase your benificial bacteria capacity. The carbon itself isn't a bad thing, however, the reason I say this is because the bacteria that colonize within your carbon filters are being tossed away (monthly or when medicating). The companies are in it to make money, so by replacing your media each month (or when on meds) you're essentially throwing away a huge piece of your bacteria, which could result in a mini-cycle. No matter how dirty it may look, NEVER throw away media unless it's literally falling apart (with the exception to carbon of course which you can just get rid of entirely). I'm not saying trash your entire filter of course, just simply remove the carbon and replace it with some other bio-media (assuming you've already taken your carbon cartridges out to medicate).

I use AquaClear filters, as they have an easy three stage capacity (bio-rings, carbon, and the foam sponge). But the carbon of course I don't use. Had my tank up and running for about a year and haven't had to replace any media yet