pH rising ridiculously fast

[Churchen]

Hey everyone, first time poster here. I’m at a bit of a loss. First let me start by saying I’m brand new to fish keeping. I have a 45 gallon tank with 9 neon tetra and 9 X ray tetra.

I have noticed that my pH is high, too high for tetra (currently sitting at an 8). It will NOT go down. Before I get hit with the “don’t worry, Tetra are fine at this pH, just worry about swings”, I want to solve the problem and learn to manage pH, instead of manage it for my fish.

So I’ve been trying 25% water changes every day. Today, I did a 50% water change. My tap water is perfect for tetra, slightly acidic and soft. My tap sits at about a 6.8 and soft. The purpose of the water changes was to essentially try to get the water to lower gradually.

After I finished the water change, my pH was sitting at about a 6.9. After two hours, we were back up to a 7.8. After another two hours, I’m sitting at 8. I can. not. get. the. pH. to. lower.

I’ve nuked it with full bottles of pH down (not all at once), I’ve added driftwood, I’ve tried the water changes, I added a small plant, nothing helps.

One of my neons died today. They are relatively new, so I’m trying not to freak out, but I am getting worried.

Tank parameters:

Temp: 77F
pH: 8
Nitrate: ~10 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Ammonia: 0 ppm
kH: 5
gH: 3

I feed three times a day, probably a bit too much. My only thought now is the cheap stuff I got from PetSmart in my substrate is just skyrocketing the pH.

In the tank I have one plant (bocalis?), two plastic coral pieces, one pieces of driftwood, and a few plastic plants. I hate the plastic but that’s what I have for now, I will upgrade to better plants in the future.

Is there anything I can do now except sit, wait, and let the water acidify? Also - if someone can spin me up on the science of how the bacteria changes the pH and CO2, I’d greatly appreciate it.

TL;DR- pH will spike after water changes, tap water is perfect for fish (6.8), can’t figure out why. Added driftwood and pH down, pH will return to 8 within four
hours.

Thank you all in advance, and I am stoked to be here!

 

[gray_ismyname]

yeah like you said it might be the substrate if you like it take it out for a few days and if it still does not lower put it back in that being said here is what you wanted on bacteria it is a bit of a long read tho https://www.osti.gov/pages/servlets/purl/1307331 these are for lowering ph https://www.aqueon.com/articles/aquarium-ph (this can help if you might feel like raising it for some reason as well) https://www.pawtracks.com/other-animals/aquarium-ph-levels/ this can help with identifying the cause itself and this is some more ways to do it https://www.buildyouraquarium.com/lower-ph-in-aquarium/ I wish you luck!!

 

[Aiken Drum]

This might not be what you want to hear, but trying to manage the problem is going to cause far more issues than just letting your pH settle where it wants to settle. All the pH down is not doing your aquarium any favours.

Over time the processes in an aquarium will tend to bring pH down. Nitrification produces nitrate which is acidic. Fish respiration will also lower pH. Live plants and any algae remove carbon dioxide and raise pH. Driftwood will release tannins and this again will acidify the water. There are many natural processes that affect pH.

But not at the rate or to the levels you appear to want to see.

If you are measuring pH of your tap water straight from the tap, you arent measuring your tap waters pH. Let it sit 24 hours so it has chance to degas and then measure the pH. If your tap water comes out of the tap high in CO2 then as it degasses then the pH will increase.

There could be something in the tank raising pH. Substrate perhaps, maybe some of the artificial plants and decorations. Perhaps sit a tote box full of water for 24 hours, measure pH. Then add some of your substrate and measure again after another 24 hours. Maybe add a heater and airstone to facilitate gas exchange and ensure the disolved gas content is the same as the balance level you see in your tank.

If thats not the cause, then just remove everything. Go bare bottom. Just use some plastic pipe to give the fish some semblance of cover. Monitor water chemistry like that. Then slowly add things back in, monitoring for changes until you identify what the issue is.

Edit. Are you seeing any changes in GH and KH between your tap water and your tank water? If not the pH change is likely down to gas exchange rather than something in your tank disolving in the water.

 

[Churchen]

This might not be what you want to hear, but trying to manage the problem is going to cause far more issues than just letting your pH settle where it wants to settle. All the pH down is not doing your aquarium any favours.

Over time the processes in an aquarium will tend to bring pH down. Nitrification produces nitrate which is acidic. Fish respiration will also lower pH. Live plants and any algae remove carbon dioxide and raise pH. Driftwood will release tannins and this again will acidify the water. There are many natural processes that affect pH.

But not at the rate or to the levels you appear to want to see.

If you are measuring pH of your tap water straight from the tap, you arent measuring your tap waters pH. Let it sit 24 hours so it has chance to degas and then measure the pH. If your tap water comes out of the tap high in CO2 then as it degasses then the pH will increase.

There could be something in the tank raising pH. Substrate perhaps, maybe some of the artificial plants and decorations. Perhaps sit a tote box full of water for 24 hours, measure pH. Then add some of your substrate and measure again after another 24 hours. Maybe add a heater and airstone to facilitate gas exchange and ensure the disolved gas content is the same as the balance level you see in your tank.

If thats not the cause, then just remove everything. Go bare bottom. Just use some plastic pipe to give the fish some semblance of cover. Monitor water chemistry like that. Then slowly add things back in, monitoring for changes until you identify what the issue is.

Edit. Are you seeing any changes in GH and KH between your tap water and your tank water? If not the pH change is likely down to gas exchange rather than something in your tank disolving in the water.

All really good stuff! I didn’t think about the pH from the tap being different after 24 hours. That definitely could be the culprit. I’m going to let the tank sit for a week, and if it doesn’t acidify I’m going to start trial and error with the substrate and decorations.

As far as GH and KH differences, I haven’t checked the GH and KH of my tap, but I will tonight and report back. Thanks!

Edit: the pH of my tank is 8.6 right now, super nervous.

 

[Churchen]

UPDATE:

Seems the previous test I did for pH for my tap was incorrect. The pH coming out of my tap is actually 7.8. Now, it has risen to an 8.6 in my tank.

I desperately want to lower this overtime. Everywhere I’ve read, I’ve seen that Tetra don’t like higher pH. Perhaps this is my own anxiety exacerbated by my first fish death less than 24 hours ago.

My current plan is to let the tank sit and acidify for a week and periodically monitor the pH while still performing parameter tests daily.

 

[Aiken Drum]

If your tap water is that high, and you really are set on getting pH down i would use RO water and remineralise to the parameters you are looking for.

You arent going to get it down to any noticable degree just hoping for it to acidify over time. Chemical intervention is worse than the pH as it just causes the fluctuations you need to avoid. Natural methods such as driftwood, peat moss etc might bring it down by 0.2 or 0.3.

I would still check your tap water after 24 hours. I bet thats the reason for it raising over time.

 

[Churchen]

If your tap water is that high, and you really are set on getting pH down i would use RO water and remineralise to the parameters you are looking for.

You arent going to get it down to any noticable degree just hoping for it to acidify over time. Chemical intervention is worse than the pH as it just causes the fluctuations you need to avoid. Natural methods such as driftwood, peat moss etc might bring it down by 0.2 or 0.3.

I would still check your tap water after 24 hours. I bet thats the reason for it raising over time.

I currently have tap water with and without the substrate, I’ll be checking it overtime.

As far as R/O goes, would distilled water be acceptable? Do I need a whole R/O system? Is this going to be expensive, or would I be able to do less water changes in the future, just by virtue of the water?

I did buy some minerals to bring up my GH up a bit as it’s a little low.

Honestly I’m probably going a little overboard but I want to do right by my fish as best as I can. I definitely want to avoid chemicals as much as I possibly can, so pH down isn’t going in my tank ever again.

 

[Aiken Drum]

My opinion. You are going overboard. 1 dead tetra is not a sign that anything is wrong, and the interventions you have been doing trying to get things to what you perceive as ideal is a more likely cause of death than what you are trying to correct. If you buy 8 neon tetras and 6 survive long term, that's good going even in ideal circumstances. If you continue to have issues, thats when you look to try and resolve things. Your fishes health is a much better indicator of whether you have issues than testing water parameters.

If the fish have been bought locally, then they will likely have been bred and raised in similar water to what is coming out of your tap.

Yes you can use distilled water. Again it will need remineralising, or mixing with tap water. Im not really sure what the price comparison between distilled water and RO water is. Getting your own RO filter so you can make your own water is way cheaper long run. Have you considered collecting rainwater and using that?

Using filtered water wont mean you dont need to do as many water changes. It just means you can achieve the water parameters you are looking for.

 

[Churchen]

My opinion. You are going overboard. 1 dead tetra is not a sign that anything is wrong, and the interventions you have been doing trying to get things to what you perceive as ideal is a more likely cause of death than what you are trying to correct. If you buy 8 neon tetras and 6 survive long term, that's good going even in ideal circumstances. If you continue to have issues, thats when you look to try and resolve things. Your fishes health is a much better indicator of whether you have issues than testing water parameters.

If the fish have been bought locally, then they will likely have been bred and raised in similar water to what is coming out of your tap.

Yes you can use distilled water. Again it will need remineralising, or mixing with tap water. Im not really sure what the price comparison between distilled water and RO water is. Getting your own RO filter so you can make your own water is way cheaper long run. Have you considered collecting rainwater and using that?

Using filtered water wont mean you dont need to do as many water changes. It just means you can achieve the water parameters you are looking for.

I haven’t considered rainwater but that may be a good idea.

So in the future if I had to raise a specific type of fish in a specific pH, how can I go about best lowering it from my tap? I’m assuming distilled water and RO water are both relatively neutral, but if I want to go lower than that, you would just recommend the driftwood and peat moss?

Overall I think I’m going to let it stay here. Even though the pH is 8.6 right now, I’m going to see how they do. If they start to have issues, my only option right now would be to add peat moss to my filter but even then, it won’t do too much as you said.

I guess I should aim more for stability than a specific pH, but even still, I’m worried it’s going to rise to unlivable conditions.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Ive written and rewritten this post at least 10 times, because we are getting into some complex water chemistry that i dont fully understand and dont want to overcomplicate it.

If you are looking for small adjustments to lower pH from your tap water then the driftwood or peat moss is a good way to do this. It is kind of a slow release thing that will avoid big fluctuations.

If you are looking for bigger adjustments from very basic water, then start from a blank piece of paper and you can remineralise to lower pH. You cant really just add wood or moss alone because this would lack other needed elements such as alkalinity which is important for the nitrogen cycle to function.

I would still investigate what is causing your pH rising. If its something in the tank which is causing it, thats solvable by removing it. If its CO2 offgassing then thats just where your water is and although you might bring it down a little, its an uphill battle. Either live with it or use a different water source.

 

[gray_ismyname]

Indian almond might help too possibly. If you use driftwood and peat moss and a few of those leaves that might work. I can calculate how many you'd need based on the info I got from the links I sent, but like Aiken said it will not do much but will help a bit. The article from building your aquarium says about one in a 10-gallon tank will lower it slowly without a huge reduction at first. The leaf is also called Terminalia catappa scientifically if your wanting to buy online but they are apparently sold in many pet stores. I cannot fact check that though as of now.

 

[Churchen]

UPDATE: Today I realized I had a nitrite spike. Immediately did a 50% water change. pH is still around 8.4. I added some calcium and magnesium because my GH was low.

Four of my neons have died so far, with the last one just now. I had to euthanize it. It was swimming lethargically at the top of the tank and I was able to just scoop it out with my hand.

My X-rays are doing just fine. They are very active and enjoying every bit of aquarium life. My neons however are a little less active, kind of chilling in a corner.

I’ve lost 40% of my neons in about two weeks. After my water change, I still have some nitrite so I don’t know where to go from here. I don’t want to keep changing the water until the levels go down, but I’ll do anything at this point.

Edit: I have no ammonia. I just added some new bacteria as well to hopefully bring that nitrite down.

 

[Churchen]

UPDATE: I have lost half of my neons, and none of my X-Rays. I am tired of waking up and seeing another dead fish in my aquarium. I’m at a loss of what to do. My nitrite levels are still up, even after water change and addition of new bacteria.

I guess we just sit and wait. I have media bags coming in on Tuesday where I’m going to add peat moss. Nitrite level is sitting at .25 ppm. Everything else, except pH, is normal for tetra.

X-rays are thriving, neons are dying.

Edit: I’ve tried multiple digital pH meters and they are absolutely trash in my opinion. The chemical testers are far more accurate. My digital pH meter gave me a 9, and the chemical tests gave me a 7.8, which makes me feel a lot better.

So, I’m back to being clueless about why my neons are dying.

 

[LHotelUmbraQua]

Any of your tetras have diarhrrea? Look for one that walks funny.

Hey everyone, first time poster here. I’m at a bit of a loss. First let me start by saying I’m brand new to fish keeping. I have a 45 gallon tank with 9 neon tetra and 9 X ray tetra.

I have noticed that my pH is high, too high for tetra (currently sitting at an 8). It will NOT go down. Before I get hit with the “don’t worry, Tetra are fine at this pH, just worry about swings”, I want to solve the problem and learn to manage pH, instead of manage it for my fish.

So I’ve been trying 25% water changes every day. Today, I did a 50% water change. My tap water is perfect for tetra, slightly acidic and soft. My tap sits at about a 6.8 and soft. The purpose of the water changes was to essentially try to get the water to lower gradually.

After I finished the water change, my pH was sitting at about a 6.9. After two hours, we were back up to a 7.8. After another two hours, I’m sitting at 8. I can. not. get. the. pH. to. lower.

I’ve nuked it with full bottles of pH down (not all at once), I’ve added driftwood, I’ve tried the water changes, I added a small plant, nothing helps.

One of my neons died today. They are relatively new, so I’m trying not to freak out, but I am getting worried.

Tank parameters:

Temp: 77F
pH: 8
Nitrate: ~10 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Ammonia: 0 ppm
kH: 5
gH: 3

I feed three times a day, probably a bit too much. My only thought now is the cheap stuff I got from PetSmart in my substrate is just skyrocketing the pH.

In the tank I have one plant (bocalis?), two plastic coral pieces, one pieces of driftwood, and a few plastic plants. I hate the plastic but that’s what I have for now, I will upgrade to better plants in the future.

Is there anything I can do now except sit, wait, and let the water acidify? Also - if someone can spin me up on the science of how the bacteria changes the pH and CO2, I’d greatly appreciate it.

TL;DR- pH will spike after water changes, tap water is perfect for fish (6.8), can’t figure out why. Added driftwood and pH down, pH will return to 8 within four
hours.

Thank you all in advance, and I am stoked to be here!

 

[Churchen]

Any of your tetras have diarhrrea? Look for one that walks funny.

I haven’t noticed anything abnormal