Plant noob question

[stephens0813]

I'm going to be getting dwarf hairgrass got my tank. (10 gallon) I was unsure if I need to buy one and let it grow to cover the bottom or buy enough to cover the bottom all at once. If option two is the case how many pots of these would y'all suggest I get to cover the bottom.

 

[mfdrookie516]

It will eventually grow to cover the bottom with your help. What type of lighting and co2 system are you running on this tank?

 

[neilanh]

When you get a clump of hairgrass you'll want to break it up into small pieces. Each piece needs a little of the grass and a little of the root. Plant them in pieces and it will grow in faster that way.

 

[stephens0813]

I have 13 watt spiral compact lights. Two of those and no co2. I haven't gotten any yet so if the light bulbs aren't right I can get better ones.

Ok that makes sense. About how long would you say it would take for the bottom to get fully covered?

 

[Pecktec]

I have 13 watt spiral compact lights. Two of those and no co2. I haven't gotten any yet so if the light bulbs aren't right I can get better ones.

Ok that makes sense. About how long would you say it would take for the bottom to get fully covered?

Careful if you have the wrong temperature light they will get a lot of algae and not grow well. I think these normally need co2 as well.

Sent from Sean's iPad using Aquarium

 

[stephens0813]

What kind of light would you suggest? Do you know any good diy co2 plans? Also how would I find out how much I need to inject?

 

[Pecktec]

I think the range is 6500k to around 10000k. There are all kinds sold specifically for plants. The salt water ones should be avoided. CO2 can be tricky for a small tank like that most of the DIY stuff I've seen is for big tanks. They do make some cool little store bought ones for small tanks. the NutraFin CO2 Natural Plant System for example. Basically it's some yeast and a stabilizer ( baking soda?) in the packets. I bet once you had the kit you could measure the amounts in the packets avoid buying the NutraFin refills making it a cheeper investment. I made a DIY setup for my 55 but I screwed up and put way to much in. The make ph indicators also that are handy for seeing how much is going in.

Sent from Sean's iPad using Aquarium

 

[stephens0813]

Ok thanks.

One last question. If I buy one pot and separate it into the four corners of the tank how soon could I expect the bottom to be covered completely? (granted I do everything right)

 

[Mr. Limpet]

Ok thanks.

One last question. If I buy one pot and separate it into the four corners of the tank how soon could I expect the bottom to be covered completely? (granted I do everything right)

First off, lights for plants range from 65 - 6700K. Anything above that (like 8 & 10K) and it doesn't help. Find the ground cover you want or can get and research it. C02 is needed in some systems not all and they can be tricky to use. Search c02 systems here, there are some DIY and reviews on consumer systems.

If the pot is big enough (ie heavy growth) you can break it up, but I wouldn't plant in the corner. Rather put them off the corner a few inches so they grow 360 degrees and propitiate faster.

 

[mfdrookie516]

First off, lights for plants range from 65 - 6700K. Anything above that (like 8 & 10K) and it doesn't help.

No, they were right. Plants use light in the 6500k-10,000k temerature range. FWIW, I have 10,000k bulbs over my 40 breeder and the plants are growing like CRAZY!

 

[Mr. Limpet]

No, they were right. Plants use light in the 6500k-10,000k temerature range. FWIW, I have 10,000k bulbs over my 40 breeder and the plants are growing like CRAZY!

Actually they don't. Plants only use the red - blue light spectrum. In kelvins (the K on lights) that range is between 5000K and 6500K.

Here's one of many links you can find using Google.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/lighting_planted_tank.php

Now the fact that yours are doing good, deals with a lot of variables that promote growth, not just lighting. I grow low to med light plants in a 37 gal tall with a 6500K at 17w. By most standards I would be told "you can't grow plants", but I do. Now would I recommend that? Absolutely not. Like you, mine is an anomaly.

 

[neilanh]

I think we can all agree that the "optimum" commercially available bulbs for plants are in the lower range. For me, it's my belief that 5000-6500K is best. But, as you stated, Mr. Limpet, there are so many variables involved, however, that there is no 1 perfect solution.

I just want to point out that you can grow plants with bulbs anywhere in 5000K to 10,000K color temperature. I would imagine you could go outside that range a few thousand as well and still have some varying levels of success.

It's widely recommended, however, that somewhere in that 5k-10K range is likely the optimum point for the plants.

 

[fort384]

I have to disagree that you need a color temp of 6500K exclusively to grow plants. Anything from 5000K to about 12000K is suitable... all bulbs in this range will provide varying amounts of red and blue light. I currently run 2 high light tanks with 10000K lights. The plants grow wonderfully (including rotala wallichii). In the past, I have used combinations of 6500K and 10000K bulbs, as well as exclusively 6500K bulbs. I have seen no appreciable difference in plant growth/health amongst all the combinations... So long as the light provided has peaks of both red and blue (somewhere between 5000K-12000K) it really comes down to how you want it to look, as there is a definite discernible difference to the human eye in the color of the light at the high and low ends of that range.

As you get closer to the high end of that range, the light becomes more blue, and less red... but there is still plenty of red in the spectrum to support plant life.

Take a look at this color temp chart from Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: Home Page. There is very little difference between the range of 6000-10000K.

Really what it comes down to is PAR... and I remember reading a study somewhere where they measured the PAR of a 6700K bulb, and a 10000K bulb, and the PAR was virtually identical. I will look around and see if I can find a link to it.

 

[fort384]

As for running DIY CO2, if you are still looking for some info on how to setup and run a system, check out this thread:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f20/1-4-diy-3-4-purchased-co2-system-136350.html

It has a few links to builds, and has a lot of info about how to dissolve co2, and measure it. Running a DIY CO2 system on a 10gal tank is easy and imo tanks about that size are ideal candidates. You can build a system for just a few dollars... If you have even very minimal DIY skills, I would build one versus buying a commercial "DIY" system, which can run you upwards of $20-40 off the shelf, and is nothing more than a bottle, a tube, and some fancy packets of yeast and baking soda.

 

[Mr. Limpet]

I think we can all agree that the "optimum" commercially available bulbs for plants are in the lower range. For me, it's my belief that 5000-6500K is best. But, as you stated, Mr. Limpet, there are so many variables involved, however, that there is no 1 perfect solution.

I just want to point out that you can grow plants with bulbs anywhere in 5000K to 10,000K color temperature. I would imagine you could go outside that range a few thousand as well and still have some varying levels of success.

It's widely recommended, however, that somewhere in that 5k-10K range is likely the optimum point for the plants.

I guess the bigger question I can't answer is, in a 10,000K bulb does it pass thru the optimum 5 - 6500K range, or does it bypass it altogether? Photosynthesis is a specific process and there's not much, if any wiggle room in my research.

As I said, I'm not supposed to be growing plants in my DT ( a quote from a LFS plant "expert"), but I do and they do pretty good.

 

[fort384]

I guess the bigger question I can't answer is, in a 10,000K bulb does it pass thru the optimum 5 - 6500K range, or does it bypass it altogether? Photosynthesis is a specific process and there's not much, if any wiggle room in my research.

As I said, I'm not supposed to be growing plants in my DT ( a quote from a LFS plant "expert"), but I do and they do pretty good.

No, the light does not "pass through" or ramp up to 10,000K. It is what it is.

But, photosynthesis needs red and blue light, and both colors are readily available in both color temps of light.

 

[Welshy]

I have 2 18000k t8glo tubes which are high in both blue and red I think it's all down to the manufacturer these days as tube technology seems to have moved on alot from the reading I've been doing

 

[Pecktec]

As for running DIY CO2, if you are still looking for some info on how to setup and run a system, check out this thread:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f20/1-4-diy-3-4-purchased-co2-system-136350.html

It has a few links to builds, and has a lot of info about how to dissolve co2, and measure it. Running a DIY CO2 system on a 10gal tank is easy and imo tanks about that size are ideal candidates. You can build a system for just a few dollars... If you have even very minimal DIY skills, I would build one versus buying a commercial "DIY" system, which can run you upwards of $20-40 off the shelf, and is nothing more than a bottle, a tube, and some fancy packets of yeast and baking soda.

Good information in this link. Just don't build a monster one like I did. Start small and use color indicators or ph tests to monitor the co2 levels.

Sent from Sean's iPad using Aquarium

 

[stephens0813]

Ok thanks.

So would y'all suggest I use one or two bulbs? My hood has two fixtures.

 

[fort384]

2.