Pressurized CO2 questions!

[An t-iasg]

I have been wondering if it is feasible for me to go pressurized. My Hagen system is fine on my 5 gallon tanks. On my 10 gallon tank, I have two Hagen canisters and I haven't had consistent CO2 production since this tank was set up in July.

I called two suppliers near me. One is 50-60 minutes away all the way down through town and across tunnels and bridges (I think the term "you can't get there from here" originated in Pittsburgh, lol!) This place is cheaper for the initial tank purchase and refills but I'm going with another supplier that's 5 minutes away. So now that it will be easy to buy/refill the tank, I've been reading up on regulators and other equipment. I like this regulator - the first one, JBJ:

http://www.co2-canisters.com/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d32.html

It has the built-in bubble counter, needle valve, and solenoid. If I want the Milwaukee pH controller later (scroll down that page), will it fit the JBJ regulator? I think it would but I want to make sure.

 

[jcarlilesiu]

Im not sure if the PH controller will fit the JBJ, but why not just get the miliwaukee regulator. It has all the same features with the exception of the light that tells you when its on or off (you will here the selenoid click believe me) and its cheaper. Just a suggestion

 

[Purrbox]

Just curious as to what your goals are with going pressurized. Are you looking to supply only one tank with CO2 or several? Any particular reason that you want to use the PH Controller or just because it's there?

Reguardless the pH Controller should work fine with any selonoid. You just plug the selonoid into the PH Controller, which allows it to shut off the CO2 by turning off power to the selonoid when the desired pH level has been reached.

 

[malkore]

I think the milwaukees are better. I don't like the fixed output rate on JBJ's and have seen far more 'warranty return' posts on various plant sites vs. milwaukee's.

 

[An t-iasg]

Thanks, everyone! I've looked at several sites for setting up CO2 pressurized - the one that you linked in your thread, Purrbox, Chuck Gadd's site, and the excellent article on our site by Madasafish. Then I started to search for regulators. I was surprised at how many different brands there are. I seem to recall that most here went with JBJ or Milwaukee. It was my conclusion that JBJ was a bit better, but I didn't make a firm decision as that's the one I'm getting. Malkore, what is meant by fixed output rate?

My understanding of the selonoid is that it either controls the CO2 with your lighting or with the pH. I was planning on trying it without the pH controller at first, and maybe getting it later. I don't have any fish in the tank yet so now is the time to experiment and see what I like. This pressurized system will go on one tank, the 10 gallon. The 5 gallons are fine with the Hagen system. It would be hard to hook all the tanks up to the pressurized - only two of the tanks are in the same room!

 

[An t-iasg]

I did some searching to find out about the fixed output rate on the JBJ. Does it matter that much if I'm only running one aquarium from the CO2 tank? I guess I know what you're talking about now but not sure how it applies. I think the fixed output could be a good feature to have.

 

[dapellegrini]

I also use the Milwakee and would highly recommend. Don't know much about the JBJ.

Being able to tweak the output can help with precision needle-valve settings. I have heard that some of these fixed units come factory set around or under 20kg/cm2 where you will get more consistent results with your needle valve if it is between 30-35 (I set mine to 30 and it is working great).

The problem that I have heard from folks who have had problems is that they are constantly playing with the needle valve. Seems that some regulators at factory setting do not pressurize the needle valve enough, result: every few hours your bubble counter goes from whatever you set it at to nothing, and you have to adjust and readust it.

I hope all of that made sense. Some of these fixed units have a nut on the front that you can turn to change the pressure, but that may void your warranty.

Good luck.

 

[An t-iasg]

Thanks, Dan - it is making more sense now. I thought the fixed output would help in maybe ensuring that you couldn't accidentally ruin the regulator or accidentally drain the tank. But I do see what you mean now about having an adjustable output level and keeping the needle valve consistent. After a few more searches, it seems that Milwaukee's customer service can't be beat. I'm convinced - I'm going with Milwaukee

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I don't know that that particular JBJ has a fixed output. What do you mean by fixed? It's a dual guage setup with a needle valve. And the neat thing on it is also the built-in check valve. Looks like a deceent setup to me. I personally have Milwaukees myself.

As for the controller question, you can use the controller with any setup or manufacturer, as long as it has a built-in solenoid. The controller does not actually go in the regulator itself. Instead, you plug the solenoid to a power source that's always on, then plug the solenoid into the controller. That way, when the low ph is reached, the controller will remove power from the solenoid, thus shutting CO2 off. Then when the upper ph boundary is reached, power turns on and the solenoid kicks open.

 

[An t-iasg]

LWB...sorry I didn't see your post. I was gone pretty much all day Sunday until now...Anyway, I think what is meant by a fixed output is the regulator fixes the pressure at a set limit. As Dan said, you can turn a nut to adjust it but by doing so, you invalidate the warranty. The regulator comes pre-set to this pressure. If it's not quite right for your needs, then you may have some trouble. This is just what I understood from searching on it. I've never actually had one to play around with.

I'm sure JBJ and Milwaukee are good. That is what made it tough for me to make my decision. I did decide to go with Milwaukee. It was a bit cheaper (and I'm surprised, even after being warned, lol, how expensive this will be). Also, more people on here seem to have Milwaukee, so I'll have lots of potential help. I'm sure I'll need some!

Here is the setup I'm ordering in the next few days (first one, Combo 1):

http://www.co2-canisters.com/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d32.html

I thought the bubble fluid was a bit overpriced but overall I thought it looked like a good system.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Actually, I've never bought the bubble counter fluid. I've always used distilled water. Don't use tap water as it causes mineral deposits.

 

[dapellegrini]

I second that with the distilled water. No reason to buy a special liquid for the bubble counter.

 

[An t-iasg]

I thought the same thing (just use distilled water) but the bubble fluid comes in the pre-priced package. If you try to submit the shopping cart without it, an error box pops up.

Also, during another search for bubble fluid, it said that the bubbles rise in slow motion through the thick fluid. That could possibly be a good thing. I've seen a system similar to the one I'm getting in action. Sometimes no bubbles are coming through, and sometimes, when the system turns on, lots of very fast bubbles come through. It would be almost impossible to count them, and that system didn't use special fluid. The system I saw was on a 40-gallon tank, so I'm sure I won't have as many bubbles as that tank. But anyway, to take advantage of that particular combo package, the bubble fluid is included. I liked the other parts that were included - the calibration solutions and the CO2-proof tubing. I just have to add a check valve and I'm all set!

 

[marcus russo]

Another benifit is the bubble counter fluid will not evaporate like water will.
Water works fine though
Marcus

www.sciencetoystore.com
for super antquariums

 

[An t-iasg]

Update: I got the combo kit I linked above. It's great! Everything is included except a check valve and it's pretty easy to set up. Now I'm still working with the bubble counter, but I understand that's normal. It still may take a day or two to settle in. I think I need a better diffuser, though. The one I brought over from my old DIY setup is ok, but I think I can get a better one for pressurized.

I believe this is your package, Marcus - I didn't order from the aquatic-store url but the site I ordered from linked to you. It was a great setup for a first-time pressurized CO2 buyer!

 

[rkilling1]

I second that with the distilled water. No reason to buy a special liquid for the bubble counter.

How about using mineral oil? I have read that is works very well. slows the bubbles down and does not evaporate like water does. Anybody with any experience with this? I think I will go and get some today and try it out.

 

[dapellegrini]

I have noticed that the water in the bubble counter will evaporate and I have had to refill it once. Well, I am assuming that it is making it through to the reactor because of evaporation but some of it may be making it through the tubing with the CO2 as it bubbles up (I keep my counter 1/2 full).

Honestly, knowing that it is water in there, means one less thing for me to worry about. I don't really see any need to slow the bubbles down and I have no idea what could occur if I got mineral oil in the tank...

 

[wademan]

LWB...sorry I didn't see your post. I was gone pretty much all day Sunday until now...Anyway, I think what is meant by a fixed output is the regulator fixes the pressure at a set limit. As Dan said, you can turn a nut to adjust it but by doing so, you invalidate the warranty. The regulator comes pre-set to this pressure. If it's not quite right for your needs, then you may have some trouble. This is just what I understood from searching on it. I've never actually had one to play around with.

I'm sure JBJ and Milwaukee are good. That is what made it tough for me to make my decision. I did decide to go with Milwaukee. It was a bit cheaper (and I'm surprised, even after being warned, lol, how expensive this will be). Also, more people on here seem to have Milwaukee, so I'll have lots of potential help. I'm sure I'll need some!

Here is the setup I'm ordering in the next few days (first one, Combo 1):

http://www.co2-canisters.com/index.html?lang=en-us&target=d32.html

I thought the bubble fluid was a bit overpriced but overall I thought it looked like a good system.

Is this system expandable/modifiable in the future to supply multiple tanks??? Just doing research and am wondering. I noticed other guys had ordered ones with multiple outputs.... it would suck to have to buy another one just to do another tank..

 

[Purrbox]

All standard regulators can be modified to supply CO2 to multiple tanks. You just need to purchase a Manifold with the number of ports needed. This is then attached to the regulator and you are ready to go.

 

[rkilling1]

All standard regulators can be modified to supply CO2 to multiple tanks. You just need to purchase a Manifold with the number of ports needed. This is then attached to the regulator and you are ready to go.

I believe his(her) question was more towards: could you remove the bubble counter from the solenoid and then use a manifold? or muliply bubble counters? am I thinking correctly wademan?