Prime and Ammonia Readings?

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captaincritical said:
No nitrites. pH is 7.4, temp is currently 86f as I'm treating what I think could be ich. The ammonia has been present from the very beginning, however, when the tank was at 77f.
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Ok so hopefully what I'm about to say will make you feel a little better about holding off on the prime for a couple of days. :) Hobbyist test kits for ammonia provide a measurement of Total Ammonia. Total Ammonia is the sum of toxic un-ionized ammonia (NH3) and nontoxic (or far less toxic) ionized ammonia (NH4). Take a look at your test kit bottle...notice how it says NH3/NH4...that's giving you a reading for total ammonia. The reason I asked about your pH and temp is because these two factors will determine how much of the ammonia in your tank is in the toxic un-ionized form vs. the nontoxic ionized ammonia. Basically the way it works is the higher your pH and temp the more the total ammonia will be comprised of the toxic un-ionized form.

So for a pH of 7.4 and a temp of 86f, a total ammonia reading of .25 would be comprised of just .0049 of toxic un-ionized ammonia. To give you context, most research indicates .05 is the point where fish begin to suffer from ammonia toxicity (these levels could vary depending on the sensitivity of the particular fish). Some research does indicate that longer term exposure at the .02 level can have an impact as well. So this means that your total ammonia could go as high as 1ppm and the toxic portion of that would be .0198.... Right at the border of the .02 level.

Now I'm not suggesting that you allow total ammonia to get as high as 1. I just want you to know that .25 or .5 shouldn't cause any harm and you should feel safe holding off on the prime so that you can see if it is the cause of your ammonia reading. If you're still getting an ammonia reading after 2 or 3 days of not using prime then you will know you have a problem that needs addressing. I hope you find this info helpful. :) if you're interested in finding out how I calculated the toxic ammonia levels you can check out these research papers....

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa031

https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/111/
 
API's liquid ammonia test measures total ammonia(ammonia+ammonium (which is what prime converts ammonia to)). Try getting one of the seachem ammonia alert suction cup thingys. It only measures ammonia(the more harmful of the two!). I used one in my new 46 gallon while I fishless cycled with a seeded filter cartridge from another tank and dosed 100% ammonia to feed the bb. The api test consistently read at 2 ppm during testing while the ammonia alert never went above 0.2... baffled by this I doubled the ammonia dosing for a few days and the seachem test did increase and hit 0.5 ppm(the highest it goes DANGER!), and the api test exploded up to 8ppm. PWC time, and I resumed normal ammonia dosing for the duration. Moral of my story is, Prime is liquid gold, but does throw off the API test a little.
 
And in the time it took for me to type my reply and let the dogs out, Rak much more elequently, made my point! Beat to the punch!
 
captaincritical said:
Unfortunately adding a double dose of Prime and aging the water for several hours still gets me a 0.25ppm reading.



I tested the tank water today 24 hours after adding Prime and got the same result. I was planning on waiting the full 48 hours, but my fish were starting to act a little sluggish, so I dosed with Prime again. It could possibly have been all in my head, but I wasn't willing to risk it.



Looks like Prime is my best friend until I can get an RO-DI unit. Man, is my other half ever going to be thrilled with another expense. :rolleyes:
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I think you misunderstand how prime works. If you have 4ppm prime in your tank and add prime. You will still read 4ppm prime. The total ammonia is still there it has just been changed to the less toxic for of ammonia and the API master test kit does not distinguish between the toxic and non toxic. It just measures TOTAL ammonia. The ammonia will stay there until you either a) do a water change
b) your bacteria convert it to nitrite

Hope this helps
 
captaincritical said:
You've both made me feel significantly better, actually. Thank you very much! I will wait and see what happens after 48 hours.
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Glad we were able to help! :) Keep us posted!

Plantaholic said:
And in the time it took for me to type my reply and let the dogs out, Rak much more elequently, made my point! Beat to the punch!
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threnjen said:
I hate getting beaten to the punch! Curse you Rak! ;)
Totally teasing in case that wasn't clear.
Rak I think you might enjoy our science topics. Here is our current topic of study: http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f23/nitrite-toxicity-discussion-301444.html

Captain your tank is fine! No worries. Eventually the bio filter will take care of it, too.
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Sorry guys! :lol: I hate when that happens to me!!

Threnjen - thx for the link. I will definitely check it out.
 
Thought I'd post an update of sorts and let you all know what's going on in case you're wondering for some reason.

I was due for a weekly water change this morning, so I did a big one, around 60%. Dosed with the recommended amount of Prime to dechlorinate, and now I'm going to leave it alone. We shall see what happens in 48 hours.

Also, after spending several hours (yes, hours - OCD dictated that it was necessary) researching and looking at fish with ich, I've determined that the small white dots on my one blushing tetra's tail are a natural colouration and nothing else. I've had the temperature at 86 for about a week now and have seen no other signs of the disease in any other fish, so I think it's safe to say my tank doesn't have it. Still, I suppose better safe than sorry. I'm bringing the temperature back down slowly.

ANYWAY, I'm done panicking. Thanks, all!
 
Sounds like the standard operating procedure for any kind of caring attentive aquarist.. Keep up the good work.. I lugged 2- 4gal jugs of spring water up 3 flights if stairs every night for 2 weeks when I started cycling my tanks, obviously before I met prime...
 
Reminds me of the time the power was out in my building and I'd just come back from the vet with my cat. Walked up 10 flights of stairs with a doped-up kitty in a carrier and a big bag of food.

Ah, the things we do for our pets.
 
I don't wanna be a buzz kill at all but did you double test? That yellow looks too light, like when I forget to add that last drop! If not that's awesome!
 
Congrats captain!! So even though you should, by all rights, be able to relax a little bit with your tank I'm guessing you won't;)
 
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