proper order of filter media

[jdf]

I have a four (five if you count the built in u/v) stage filter (SunSun HW-403b, other brands have the same canister, just have a different name).

I am currently performing a fishless cycle. However, I have been reading about filter media and trying to figure out the best way to utilize my 4 stages.

Right now I have:
stage 1: (2) fine filter pads (sunsun standard)
stage 2: (3) fluval carbon (100 gram packs)
stage 3: fluval biomax (ceramics) (think it is the 500g box)
stage 4: full tray of Lee's Pet Products (recommended by LFS) bio balls

They uv filter hits the water as it is coming in then it flows from stage 1 to 4. I have the uv light off while it is cycling.

Should I have some sort of polishing pad? What advantage does this do over the standard pads. Where do I put it?

Should I add a course pad on top or below the standard pads? What would this do for me.

I have read many support and not support the use of carbon. Any thoughts on this board to what may be better to use? Maybe a polishing pad?

Note: I went by what fluval recommends for their 4 stage filter for my current set up.

 

[bigsea]

Polishing pads are more or less the same material but a lot finer to trap more particles and prevent sediment from exiting the filter which is what they call "polishing". They actually clog a lot easier because of this. If you can afford the costs of replacing those go for it but id much rather go for a standard pad and if i feel like "spoiling" myself id throw in the polish pad. Id put the pad last (giving other coarse and fine pads their chance at filtering most of the crap out in attempts to prolong the time between polish pad replacement.

For the record i have the 303b and my water is crystal clear with the stock pads.

I personally put my pads in the first tray, bioballs in the second tray, and fluval ceramics, ammonia remover, wonderstones, and purigen in the last tray. And this is why.

My mentor explained to me that your biomedia holds the bacteria that breaks down the ammonia and nitrite. So if this is true (which it is) youd want that water to hit your bacteria cluster when its at its peak dirtiness( has the most ammonia and nitrite). Having media specialized in chemically filtering your water by means of removing ammonia and nitrite, organic wastes ect before it hits your bacteria cluster is taking away a portion of the food before its "served". Ive never tested fluval biomax and ammonianizer to see if it actually detoxifies the water but if it does as these companies claim it does, id want my bacteria to have a chance to eat, THEN have my chemical media clear up some of the excess on its way out if my filter.

With this being said id believe the most optimal setup for a multistage filter to have mechanical filtration first, then bio filtration, then chemical filtration.


- St Charles Almendras Geraldizo

 

[jdf]

your logic is why I was asking. It didn't seem to make since to me to have the carbon first before the bio. I will switch it soon.

What are your thoughts on its uv light. As far as the uv light, would this be the same principle? I remember thinking when I purchased it that the uv light should be the last step. However, the main reason for the light is to kill off parasites, I don't know what it does to bacteria and waste. It may not matter since your bio filtration should have the necessary bacteria to take care of the waste.

When you stop your 303b, does the flip up switch (to disconnect the input/output) do a good job of not leaking water form the input/output hoses? I haven't tried yet!

 

[bigsea]

Its believed that the uv light kills bacteria and parasite and fungus and that it doesnt hurt the beneficial bacteria. And since uv sterilizers are widely accepted AND that the sunsun's is so weak id assume it to be true. Mine burnt out in the first 3 days cause i left it on for 3 days lol. Seems like really terrible logic since the uv light DOES have an on/off switch. I find the sunsuns uv light more of a sales pitch that useful although i still use it to clear green water and when i treated for a minor fungal fin rot. Did it help? Not sure. Will i ever test it? Never lol.

The lever does an incredible job. I turn the lever, then unplug my filter and wait a few seconds. There IS. Vacuum seal on the filter itself so once you start to remove the top if the canister keep moving up. If you pull up then push down water will come out. And yes i learned the hard way.


- St Charles Almendras Geraldizo

 

[bigsea]

Oh the uv light DOES clear the green water. I know that for sure

I also use it constantly in junction with the lights. 2 4 hour bursts a day. Just because i want to cash in on all the benefits of my filter. And i acclimate fish with my lights off so when theyre added ill turn the uv light on as well.

Heres the link of the replacement bulb i used and it works

http://m.ebay.com/itm/9-Watt-Germic...9W-JEBAO-SUNSUN-JEBO-/160398227351?nav=SEARCH
- St Charles Almendras Geraldizo

 

[jdf]

how to tell when the uv bulb is bad

Mine burnt out in the first 3 days cause i left it on for 3 days lol.
- St Charles Almendras Geraldizo

How did you know it was burnt out? Does the light on the switch go out?

 

[bigsea]

Yep. That light indicator will show no light with the switch in the on position.

But since i replaced the bulb on the first of december, with my new uv light regimen the bulb is still going strong. A month and 12 days isnt much but its an improvement from 3 days haha

- St Charles Almendras Geraldizo

 

[PB_Smith]

Polishing pads are more or less the same material but a lot finer to trap more particles and prevent sediment from exiting the filter which is what they call "polishing". They actually clog a lot easier because of this. If you can afford the costs of replacing those go for it but id much rather go for a standard pad and if i feel like "spoiling" myself id throw in the polish pad. Id put the pad last (giving other coarse and fine pads their chance at filtering most of the crap out in attempts to prolong the time between polish pad replacement.

For the record i have the 303b and my water is crystal clear with the stock pads.

I personally put my pads in the first tray, bioballs in the second tray, and fluval ceramics, ammonia remover, wonderstones, and purigen in the last tray. And this is why.

My mentor explained to me that your biomedia holds the bacteria that breaks down the ammonia and nitrite. So if this is true (which it is) youd want that water to hit your bacteria cluster when its at its peak dirtiness( has the most ammonia and nitrite). Having media specialized in chemically filtering your water by means of removing ammonia and nitrite, organic wastes ect before it hits your bacteria cluster is taking away a portion of the food before its "served". Ive never tested fluval biomax and ammonianizer to see if it actually detoxifies the water but if it does as these companies claim it does, id want my bacteria to have a chance to eat, THEN have my chemical media clear up some of the excess on its way out if my filter.

With this being said id believe the most optimal setup for a multistage filter to have mechanical filtration first, then bio filtration, then chemical filtration.


- St Charles Almendras Geraldizo

Actually you have it backwards. you want the chemical filtration to remove as much waste BEFORE it breaks down into ammonia.
By doing that you place less of a burden on the biological capabilities of the beneficial bacteria.
Ideally the biological portion should be after any chemical filtration.
Best arrangement IMO, is graduated mechanical filtration going from coarse to fine. You want to remove as much particulate matter as possible before reaching the other portions or they will clog and lose efficiency.
Then you want the water to pass through whatever you are using for chemical filtration to again remove as much protein and dissolved organic compounds BEFORE they break down into ammonia.
Finally should be the biological section utilizing a media with both good external surface area as well as good internal surface area.
Ceramic, pumice, lava rock, Matrix, etc. are much better choices than bio-balls because they can provide internal as well as external surface for bacteria, whereas bio-balls only provide external area.

The net result of such a configuration is less nitrate production overall because less organic substances are presented to the biological filter for nitrification.

I just yesterday finished re-configuring my saltwater set-up to achieve exactly this, mechanical-chemical-biological;
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f60/new-configuration-any-thoughts-344658.html

 

[bigsea]

Its safe to say you can read supporting views on both setups. My tests are always clean and id assume yours are as well or you would not stand by you views as i stand by mine. To remove the amounts of ammonia/nitrite in which beneficial bacteria feeds would most likely result in less bacteria. IMO the main objective would be to insure ammonia and nitrite are broken down to nitrate and not to lessen the amounts of nitrates because nitrates are removed from wc's and not beneficial bacteria because as we know Beneficial bacteria doesnt break down nitrate. To insure the ammonia and nitrate get broken down would mean we need to insure we are culturing a healthy beneficial bacteria colony. The presence of mech, chem, bio media and more simply surface area do play a role in this. I dont have the funds to stack two equal sized tanks full of equal numbers and sizes of goldfish and test both filter setups that have been stated. I agree your views are viable but as long as my tests check out i wont look into the matter further.

I know aqadvisor isnt the bible but with my setup i get 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and less than .25ppm of nitrate with 10% wc's with topoffs on tuesdays and 50% wc's on saturdays




I also do not use carbons. Not to mention immediately viewing your thread i can see your filtration capacity is enormous compared to mine as im using a cheap canister from china. You have more media, more stages of filtration, just plain "more".

This is not a stab at who is right or wrong because quite frankly i dont know. All i know is the results im getting from my setup

- St Charles Almendras Geraldizo