PWC Casualty

[Johnny Tuttle]

Well, I did a PWC on my 21 gallon last evening, and I lost my male platty overnight (I have 10 neons, a trio of guppies [plus fry], and now two female platties).

The timing means I did something wrong in the PWC, I'd think. I had conditioned the new water and let it warm up to room temperature before adding it to the tank. I tried to follow the general book on doing this completely.

The bucket I'd used to contain the new water--after buying it, I'd washed it in dish water, but I'd rinsed it thoroughly and a little obsessively. I'm scared here's my answer--scared because if any remnant soap made it into the tank, then all of fish are at risk, and I wouldn't know how to fix this without changing too much water too quickly. The male platty was swimming poorly and strangely immediately following the change, though; that would seem too quick.

Now, I'll confess that I'm convinced my others are behaving differently, but that might be more that I'm concerned.

Nuts.

 

[Sahabo]

It would help if you could post your water parameters including levels of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates. Also is your tank cycled? What is the temperature reading in the tank?

 

[Menagerie]

Why are you letting the water come up to room temp? I don't know where you live, but room temp could mean 68 degrees--which is chilly for tropical fish. Does this tank have a heater? Is there something wrong with using water from your hot water tap mixed with cold water?
If there was soap in the bucket, other fish would not have made it overnight.

 

[Zagz]

If you use hot water from your tap mixed with cold to set the temp correctly you can add dechlorinator straight to the bucket before adding it to the tank. As Menagerie has pointed out, room temp may be too cold and may have been the culprit in the death of your fish.

 

[eshepler]

How much water did you change? Excessive water changes can put lots of stress on fish. I never suggest more than 40% at any give time unless the situation warrants. (Like after several days of heavy medication).

 

[Lager]

If you change water on a regular basis large changes cause no harm and do much good. The problems come in if you go a month at a time and then decide to do a large change, this will cause large changes in parameters and stress the fish. I do large changes weekly.

When was the water change previous to this one?

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

I did 19 out of 79 litres, and my room had been over 21 degrees. I couldn't really get my siphoning to work properly, and the water did get cloudy. (The siphon brought out water, but not anything like the old poop.)

I had cycled my tank, but I didn't change the water yet before the other day, as I didn't want to upset the balance in the newish tank yet.

The other fish are doing OK with the exception of one of my adult female guppies, who's looking like she's struggling. The ice bath has crossed my mind.

I'm worried that my attempts to cycle seemed more successful than they had been.

 

[Purrbox]

If your water change kicked up a lot of gunk from the substrate without removing much of any of it, this could easily explain the problems you experiance. By stirring up the fish waste into the water column, it could have caused an ammonia spike harming many of the fish.

 

[Sahabo]

21 degrees? I agree with Menagerie and Zagz, that's too chilly for tropical fish. Get a heater so you can keep the temp of the tank water steady and a thermometer so you can accurately measure the temp of the old and new water when doing pwcs. Temp fluctuations can greatly stress fish.

Also, how did you cycle your tank...how long has it been established?

Again, it would really help if you posted the water parameters. If you don't have a test kit, I would get one immediately so you can more easily diagnose why your fish are getting sick and dying. I recommend liquid test kits as they are the most accurate, API freshwater master kit is excellent.

Instead of euthanizing any fish, take actions quickly to correct the problem. Get a heater and get a test kit. Your fish may be too cold and may be suffering from ammonia or nitrite poisoning.

Try to get that siphon working properly, too.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Sorry, I do have a heater: the tank's at 76. I will get another thermometer for the new water.

I know you've got to move the siphon rapidly up and down to get the flow started, but that just "shook" up my water a lot. I was very frustrated. I think I've read about using a turkey baster to try that to start the water flow instead.

Sorry for the incomplete and infrequent updates here; my babies have colds and I'm slammed at work. The fish were supposed to be relaxing--I'm scared for my guppy now, though.

 

[Alaris]

Did you pour the water into the tank? Maybe your fish got caught in the flow. The flow from the pouring water can easily slam or injure any fish that get caught in it.

 

[Dekz]

I know you've got to move the siphon rapidly up and down to get the flow started, but that just "shook" up my water a lot. I was very frustrated. I think I've read about using a turkey baster to try that to start the water flow instead.

1) Fill the mouth of the siphon with water and plug the other end of the tube with your thumb.

2) Lift the full mouth of the siphon out of the water and move your thumb to let the water fill the tube and then plug the end again.

3) Put the mouth of the siphon back into the tank and fill with water, release your thumb from the other end, and the water will flow.

No need to shake the siphon up and down rapidly, no need to use a turkey baster or suck on the end of the tube.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

That sounds reasonable.

Here's my plan of attack. I'm going to pick up a floating aquarium thermometer and only fill my bucket with new water immediately before the PWC. I'd poured in the water via the filter last time around, but this time, I'm just going to scoop out the water in a clean but old cup and submerge it as calmly as possible. And I'm going to try out the new way of getting the siphon working, but I'm going to practice before I do the tank.

The fishes are all back to normal, with the terrible exception that one of my two female adult guppies is gone.

Still, I'm somewhat relieved that through this learning the hard way, I lost only two of sixteen adult fish in the tank.

I haven't done a subsequent PWC since--I'd been worried about disrupting the tank again, but I will do so this weekend.

I had planned on adding in otos this weekend, but that's on hold now. I may not replace either of the lost fish either. The platties are messy, and not having a male might prevent getting platty fry. If my male guppy's too hard on my existing female, I'm going to have to restore that ratio, but I'm torn between adding in a new fish to an environment I'd stressed this week and relieving the female from the constant male attention.

 

[TheChards]

Good luck!

I must admit, I've struggled to get my siphon to work properly in the past as well but did eventually get the hang of it after a lot of shaking and experimenting with putting my thumb over the end of the tube. Once it's working properly though it's quite easy to hoover up any waste that's sitting on the bottom of the tank and throw it out with the changed water.

My tank is still cycling at the moment and getting the API master test kit was the best thing I did (even though it's quite expensive) as you're effectively blindfolded with regards to what's actually going on with your filter and the water conditions without it.

 

[newfound77951]

I agree with not adding any more fish for a while, particularly otos which are delicate fish anyway. It seems like you've got a lot of fish in there for a new tank, so I'd definitely give it some time to settle in.

Since you had a male platy, I'd expect you'll still get some babies for a while. I would keep an eye on the female guppy as the male is likely to be incessant. Also, unless you're planning on getting additional tanks, the guppy fry are going to quickly overcrowd your tank.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Dekz. that method worked like a charm last night--I got a PWC done without incident, and the tank was visibly cleaner afterwards. I'll do another in a day or so.

I might have to add that extra female guppy. My male's on her like we would be if Halle Berry or Denzel knocked on our doors (choose whom you prefer).

 

[Dekz]

Dekz. that method worked like a charm last night--I got a PWC done without incident, and the tank was visibly cleaner afterwards. I'll do another in a day or so.

I'm glad it worked for you. Hehe, it was tough to describe.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

On a side note, now that I have two guppies, two platties, 10 neons, and 5 guppy fry, how close to overstocked am I?

I do want 2-3 otos or a bristlenose pleco + a pair of ghost shrimp. Crazy talk?

Yeah, that really was a great method for the siphon. I extracted 19-20 litres cleaning only a small area though, but I wanted to over stirring at all costs--that likely did cause a mincycle the other day.

 

[Johnny Tuttle]

Is it possible to overdo water changes? I'm kinda thinking a few more rounds might do my tanks some good--not knowing how to get the solid waste out until last evening means I do have some catching up.

 

[Purrbox]

As long as the parameters of the new water and the aquarium water are fairly close, doing frequent and/or large water changes is quite safe. Just make sure to remember to match temps and use the dechlor.

On the other hand when an aquarium has been let sit for a very long time without water changes (months) it's necessary to take things much slower so that you don't stress the fish with sudden changes in Nitrate and pH levels.