Red mark on tail

[Charlotte-47]

If you have nitrite you arent cycled properly. Rinsing filter media isnt going to help with that and could hinder or even remove some of your cycle. Dont touch the filter media until your cycle is fully re-established.

Personally, if you have prime ordered and on the way, then use that while your tank is cycling. When you are cycled, then use up your aqua safe and then use up any prime you have left. Going forward use whatever whatever water conditioner is the cheapest per water change. Its usually one of the 3 ive mentioned.

For example.

500ml of Prime is £24 and will treat 20000 litres of tap water. So a water change on a 200 litre tank costs 24p/water change using Prime.

500ml of Aqua Safe is £14 and will treat 1000 litres of tap water. So a water change on a 200 litre tank costs £2.80/ water change using Aqua Safe.

500ml of Aqua Safe Plus is £19 and will treat 4000 litres of tap water. So a water change on a 200 litre tank costs 95p/ water change using Aqua Safe Plus.

Thank you so much for all of that information. It’s really helpful.

The Prime has just arrived so when I do a smaller water change this afternoon I’ll use that. It says use 5ml per 200L so how much in mL would that be into one bucket of new water (10L)? I’ll change two buckets as that will put it up to around 70% change.

I won’t touch the filter. Is it okay to feed them?

I didn’t sleep last night as I thought the fish were going to die, but did you say that 0.25ppm won’t kill them? I really want it all safe for them.

 

[Aiken Drum]

2 x 10 litre buckets would only be a 10% water change on a 200 litre tank. You would need to change 14 x 10 litre buckets for it to be a 70% water change.

Doing multiple smaller water changes isnt the same as doing 1 big one. For instance 6 x 10% water changes is in reality only about a 40% water change because each water change is partly removing old water and partly removing clean water you just added. If you want to do a 50% water change, do a 50% water change.

Yes. Add 5ml of prime to the first bucket of water you pour back into the tank.

0.25ppm nitrite will be reletively harmless. Normally while cycling try and keep nitrite below 0.5ppm. Given you have a sick fish keep it lower, 0.25ppm should be fine for an upper limit.

Feed lightly. Either half what you normally feed, or feed every 2 days. Just make sure you monitor water and change it if needed. If your water isnt getting too out of hand and needing changing every day then you can feed normally.

If you are dosing salt remember to add back in salt for any water removed.

 

[Charlotte-47]

So I only need to add the prime to one bucket regardless of what % of new water I put in? That will condition the other new water once in the tank? I’m so sorry for all of the questions. I didn’t realise that I was not doing a 50% water change if I didn’t do it in one go. Do you recommend a bigger water change today?

 

[Aiken Drum]

Water conditioner will last a few hours in the tank at least. So if you add the 5ml to the first bucketful it will be in the tank water and removing the chlorine/ chloramine of the rest of the water you add in afterwards. You could just pour that 5ml straight in the tank before adding your buckets of water if you wanted to.

If your ammonia and nitrite are both no higher than 0.25ppm then no need to do a water change. A 10% water change really isnt worth doing anyway. If nitrite is say 0.25ppm a 10% change will only bring it down to 0.225ppm. Thats really no difference.

3 x 20% changes is about the same as 1 x 50% change if you really want to do it that way. My opinion is if you are going to the effort of a water change may as well make it a worthwhile one. Just make sure your water is roughly the same temperature going in as it is in the tank. The only exception to this would be if your tank water is really bad. A big water change then could cause a big swing in water parameters in one go and the change could be too much for the fish. In which numerous small changes are better so the change in water parameters is more gradual.

For instance if your nitrate is 20ppm a 50% water change will only be a swing of 10ppm. Thats nothing really. But if your nitrate is 400ppm a 50% change would be a swing of 200ppm and thats a big change.

 

[Andy Sager]

I'll just add to the above info that you seem to have experienced a loss of the bacteria bed when you made the move even tho you used the same substrate and filter. The cloudy water is a sign of this as a possibility.
Here in the states, the tap water can contain ammonia ( from chloramine) and/or nitrate but I have not seen nitrite in it. That may not be the case where you are. If so, that could explain the sudden rise in nitrite. It would have come from the water change. Make sure you do or the shop does a complete analysis of your tap water to rule it out or in as well as some water with your salt added to it at the proper dosage. This too will rule it in or out.
Ammonia poisoning can also explain the red marks. At this point however, it's too late to know for sure because you would have needed to correctly tested the water when this first appeared.

I obviously don't know the stores in the UK but Aiken is correct that there is a large lack of knowledgeable people working in them. That is a big problem in the States as well so one can safely assume it happens elsewhere as well. Sadly, you can't always know just from their appearance. I was a registered commercial fish breeder when I was in my teens and when I worked in stores, people would pass by me to talk with the older people in the store. The funny part is they would often send the people to talk to me. LOL You need to find a place and person/people you trust and support them to help keep them in business. Ask your salesman how long they have been keeping fish and what kinds they keep. That will give you some insight whether they are right person to be helping you. Someone just starting to keep fish is not going to be as helpful to you as someone with years of experience. You might also ask them who they use for their veterinarian services since medications are so hard to get there. All the stores I've worked for had a private practice " house vet" that we used for diagnosing and things we could not get over the counter. That may help shorten your search for one.

Bottom line: the sooner we have the correct information, the sooner the proper course of action can be implemented.

 

[Charlotte-47]

Thanks again for your replies. I found an independent aquatic shop and the man was really helpful. He tested the water and it came up with the same results as mine. The Nitrite is now back to 0ppm and I put in Clarity to clear the water (the man said I didn’t need to so wasn’t trying to sell, but it looks much better now)

He said if the red mark becomes an ulcer then there is medication that he can recommend but said at the moment it’s not got any open wounds. It’s no worse at all and Shadow is still happy and eating.

I test the water ever day so it’s strange that the Ammonia didn’t show up (I did those tests correctly - not like the Nitrates!)

I really trust the guy in the shop, he didn’t try to sell me anything and said that he’s refused people buying fish from him if they’re not going to put the fishes welfare first. He said I know a lot more than I think and to try and relax a bit. He wrote the doses on the Prime and Clarity caps so I don’t get it wrong. I still panic though that I will, I massively overthink everything constantly, not that it helps obviously.

He also said that the fish are very elderly and will show signs of that. He said the only thing I’m doing wrong is feeding them too much so I’ve pulled right back. Daphnia is not great apparently as it’s so small that it’s not all eaten so I’ll change to blood worms. Sorry for the novel.

 

[Andy Sager]

Keep in mind that a goldfish's digestive tract is a little different than a tropical fish's tract so they do better on a vegetation/protein mix diet and not just one food. There are foods that made specifically for goldfish so they should be part of the mixture of foods that you feed your fish.

Just curious, did you have the shop test for nitrites in the salted water as I suggested to figure out where they came from?

 

[Charlotte-47]

Keep in mind that a goldfish's digestive tract is a little different than a tropical fish's tract so they do better on a vegetation/protein mix diet and not just one food. There are foods that made specifically for goldfish so they should be part of the mixture of foods that you feed your fish.

Just curious, did you have the shop test for nitrites in the salted water as I suggested to figure out where they came from?

I feed them Tetra Gold Goldfish sinking pellets and a defrosted pea (cut into little bits) each day. Then they had Daphnia every few days. I’ll get blood worm instead though. They’ve had the same food forever, I started the peas years ago to stop constipation.

I only took the water that was in the tank as I didn’t save any of the salted water, I missed that suggestion sorry. I was panicking so much. His test showed the 0.25 Nitrite.

I’m testing each morning now, the Nitrite is back to Oppm. The only thing that changed was the salt so I think it must have been that, or the big move a month ago. In the 13years I had them it happened once. There was an Ammonia spike I can’t remember what caused that (possibly a filter breakdown) I think I’m going to buy a new filter so I have one here in case theirs breaks.

 

[Andy Sager]

I feed them Tetra Gold Goldfish sinking pellets and a defrosted pea (cut into little bits) each day. Then they had Daphnia every few days. I’ll get blood worm instead though. They’ve had the same food forever, I started the peas years ago to stop constipation.

I only took the water that was in the tank as I didn’t save any of the salted water, I missed that suggestion sorry. I was panicking so much. His test showed the 0.25 Nitrite.

I’m testing each morning now, the Nitrite is back to Oppm. The only thing that changed was the salt so I think it must have been that, or the big move a month ago. In the 13years I had them it happened once. There was an Ammonia spike I can’t remember what caused that (possibly a filter breakdown) I think I’m going to buy a new filter so I have one here in case theirs breaks.

This is what I suggest: If you still have the salt you used, add some to some clean water, not tank water, and test it for nitrites. Salt should not give you a nitrite reading but with so many brands of salt in the world coming from who knows where, anything is possible so it needs to be tested to confirm or refute it's presence. You need to know whether what you have is safe to use should you need to use it again.

 

[Charlotte-47]

This is what I suggest: If you still have the salt you used, add some to some clean water, not tank water, and test it for nitrites. Salt should not give you a nitrite reading but with so many brands of salt in the world coming from who knows where, anything is possible so it needs to be tested to confirm or refute it's presence. You need to know whether what you have is safe to use should you need to use it again.

Thank you, I’ll do that. Although I don’t think I’ll use it again, it’s too much of a coincidence that this happened after using it. Even if it wasn’t the salt I don’t trust it now.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thank you, I’ll do that. Although I don’t think I’ll use it again, it’s too much of a coincidence that this happened after using it. Even if it wasn’t the salt I don’t trust it now.

Coincidences are just that, coincidence. Better to know than to guess when it comes to living things. If you get no nitrite reading, there is no logical reason to not use it if necessary. It takes an awful lot of salt to kill off the nitrifying bacteria that could cause an ammonia or nitrite rise. That means it's human error that causes that and not the salt.