Red mark on tail

[Charlotte-47]

I think he has another red spot on his fin, just under his belly Is this the same thing or am I being paranoid. If so it’s not an injury?

 

[Colin_T]

The lump on the anal fin is also on the original picture you posted but appears more visible. I think this is more due to the lighting on the picture.

 

[Andy Sager]

Weird that. I was just on this same website.

The site says that malachite green is expected to be banned from fish medications in the near future. Followed a link to practical fishkeeping, and its already banned in germany where they are now having difficulty controlling ich.

I have heard the same thing about that for the U.S. as well. That's sad as it's a good medicine when used correctly. Thankfully there are other options. Hopefully all fish meds won't be taken off the market as it probably will make fish keeping a near impossible hobby to do.

 

[Andy Sager]

I think he has another red spot on his fin, just under his belly Is this the same thing or am I being paranoid. If so it’s not an injury?

The fact that the two spots are in the same general area does not rule out injury but makes another reason more possible. Sadly, lighting can make things look different when they are in fact the same. To me, in today's picture, the spot appears more red than in the original picture but I do see it in the original picture. You are going to have to monitor the color and if it keeps getting darker even with the current treatment, you are going to need to take more "drastic" measures as it will be a blood issue ( most likely a bacterial infection of/in the blood.) If you don't have medications that can be given via the food or through absorption, it will need to be via injection.

 

[Charlotte-47]

Thank you again everyone. I got the aquarium salts today and I’m hoping that will help him. The shop gave me details of a reptile vets who also deal with fish so I can call them if needed. I’ll dose for 5 days and see how it looks after that.

He’s still acting fine, so I’m hoping that’s a good sign that it’s not something sinister.

 

[Andy Sager]

Thank you again everyone. I got the aquarium salts today and I’m hoping that will help him. The shop gave me details of a reptile vets who also deal with fish so I can call them if needed. I’ll dose for 5 days and see how it looks after that.

He’s still acting fine, so I’m hoping that’s a good sign that it’s not something sinister.

You might want to contact the vet to confirm he/she can help you before you actually need them.

 

[Charlotte-47]

You might want to contact the vet to confirm he/she can help you before you actually need them.

Thank you, that’s a good point. I’ll do that today.

 

[Charlotte-47]

Sorry to keep asking questions, this is the 3rd day of salt and today the tank is cloudy. Do you think that’s okay? The red mark hasn’t cleared up but might be too early. The vet I found doesn’t treat fish

 

[Charlotte-47]

I’ve just done a second water test today and the Nitrite is 0.25ppm. It’s always usually 0ppm.

I’m so worried, I’m not sure if the fish are suffering. Should I do a water change or will that make it worse considering it will upset the salt dosage. Could it be the salt that has caused this?

 

[Andy Sager]

I’ve just done a second water test today and the Nitrite is 0.25ppm. It’s always usually 0ppm.

I’m so worried, I’m not sure if the fish are suffering. Should I do a water change or will that make it worse considering it will upset the salt dosage. Could it be the salt that has caused this?

I'm not exactly sure why your water would have become cloudy from the salt so something else is going on. Possibly a bacteria bloom which would go along with the re-establishing of your bacteria bed after the move. That would also account for the rise in nitrites.
You can do a water change and just add salt to the water you are replacing. For example: If you change 50 liters of water, add the proper dosage of salt for 50 liters of water. 3 days is not long enough to know if the salt is working but you should start seeing a reduction in the redness in the next day or so after the water change. If there is no change, I'd start looking for that fish vet.

If the nitrites continue to rise, you have another option and that is to use a product like Seachem's PRIME or another product that will detoxify the nitrites to help keep the fish safe. If you have Fritz products in the Uk, you can use Fritzyme #7 or Fritz turbostart 700. These are both live nitrifying bacteria to help speed up the establishing of the bacteria bed you create when cycling an aquarium.


As for the fish suffering: The fish is not well. That's a given due to the red spots. If it's eating tho, it's not unwell enough to stop "normal" activity ( like swimming and eating) so I would say that it's not " suffering." To put into human terms, are you "suffering " when you get the common cold? No, you are not suffering but you are not well. You can still function when you have a cold and right now, that's the stage your fish is in. IMO That said, I would continue your search for a fish vet just in case more drastic measures need to be taken in the future.

 

[Charlotte-47]

Thank you. I changed 50% of the water last night, but in 3 stages. I ordered the Seachem Prime last night actually after reading that it’s good. It’s coming today.

I will be searching for a fish vet, the one that was recommended doesn’t treat fish. Can I trust the local aquarium shop? That might be a weird question but there’s so much conflicting advice, I’d pay them to come and look if they are willing to.

It’s reassuring to know that they are not in pain? They were gasping last night, but stopped after the water changes. The nitrite has come down ever so slightly.

I actually wish I knew someone that was 100% trustworthy to rehome the fish to as I feel like I’m so inexperienced now that I am unknowingly causing harm to them.

I haven’t fed them at all and they are asking for food (they get excited when they see me and come to the top for their food and also searching the pebbles) so it’s also reassuring to know that is a good sign.

Could I have got the wrong ratio of salt? Would that cause the Nitrite spike? I don’t trust myself now to get this right.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Whats your fish store? If its a pets at home or maidenhead aquatics i would say you know more about keeping fish than the general level of knowledge found in their stores. At other fish stores the level of knowledge will vary. And the only medication they can supply is the over the counter medications anyway.

The only way nitrite can get into your tank is from either tap water containing nitrite or ammonia converting to nitrite via the nitrogen cycle.

Your water parameters have always looked a bit weird because you would expect to see something. Goldfish are very messy and produce a lot of waste. If you are cycled you would expect your nitrate to be high. If not cycled, you would expect to see ammonia and/ or nitrite. Until now you have been reporting essentially zero everywhere which makes me think there is something wrong with your testing. Seeing nitrite is actually positive IMO and its not at a level thats harmful to fish.

 

[Charlotte-47]

The PH 7.6 and high range PH 7.8 are the only things to show up, do you mean the parameters are weird because the Nitrate is 0? So the Nitrate shouldn’t be 0ppm? I follow the instructions and the kit is new and in date, it says to vigorously shake the Nitrate for 1 minute for accuracy then read after 5 minutes. Could I be doing something wrong while testing?

The local shop is Maidenhead, I’d never use pets at home. There is a local shop in my town which is independent so I will try that one instead of Maidenhead. Actually there’s also one that I used for years in another town, I can go back to them.

Because the Nitrite has only just shown up and previously been 0ppm that means the actual testing kit must be working so it’s something I’m doing wrong. I’m so confused.

 

[Aiken Drum]

The nitrogen cycle turns ammonia in into nitrite and nitrite into nitrate. You remove nitrate through your water changes.

Goldfish are very messy fish and make a lot of waste, and so a lot of ammonia. If you are cycled that ammonia will be turning into nitrate, so yes you should be seeing some nitrate in your test if you are cycled, and with a typical weekly water change i would expect the nitrate to be in 20 to 40ppm range. Nitrate is still toxic, so as low as possible is desirable, but zero is mostly unachievable. 20ppm is a good target to keep below, 40ppm is often considered safe, many people keep fish just fine at higher nitrate than that. If you have been a lot of water changes so nitrate could be lower than you would normally expect, but i would still expect to see something. The fact its zero suggests an issue with the testing.

You say you are getting conflicting advice, so im not really sure that adding another voice into the mix by going to a fish store will help. Lets take myself out of the equation. Andy has decades of experience in the hobby. Colin has extensive experience working in stores and knows his way around diagnosing fish illness. Both are far more likely give you far better advice than a fish store employee who you dont know their background, and their job is to sell you stuff whether its useful or not. Even experienced hobbyists will disagree at times, but unfortunately thats how things are.

You have started doing salt treatment and i would give that chance first. I would take a sample of water to the fish store to get a 2nd opinion on your tests. Make sure you take the sample before you do a water change because a water change will dilute things down and potentially give you a false sense of security. If you get them to test your water, make sure they write the test results down in numbers. "Everything good" isnt really helpful. Might also be worth noting what test kit they used.

One thing to be aware of is your goldfishes age. 20 years is very old for a goldfish and old age catches up with pretty much everything.

 

[Charlotte-47]

I’ve just watched a video on how to correctly use the test kit and I’ve realised that I wasn’t shaking the Nitrate bottle #2 for 30 seconds, I don’t know how I stupidly missed that. It’s showing 10ppm. The book says 40ppm or below so I assume that 10ppm is okay.

I’ll use the Seachem Prime when it arrives and see what happens to the Nitrites.

I’m rinsing the filter medium in the dirty water once a week, is that too often? I’ve also got Carbon in there, is that correct?

Once I’ve learned everything again I will stop asking so many questions.

I’m worried about adding the salt again as the Nitite spiked after using it. I’m going to triple check I’ve added the right amount, and I will add again tomorrow.

 

[Aiken Drum]

There you go. That test result makes a little more sense. I would still get that 2nd opinion though.

Prime wont do anything to the nitrite test. There is actually a lot of debate on whether prime actually does detoxify ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as they claim. Even if it does work, all it will do is detoxify them for a day or 2, not remove them, and they will still show up in a test.

Seachem have absolutely no evidence that their products detoxify ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. Their own website Q+A section readily admit the product wasnt designed to remove nitrite or nitrate, and their claim that it does is 100% based on anecdotal evidence and nothing in the way of analysis. If it does detoxify nitrite and nitrate they have no idea why or how it works. At least there are known mechanisms for detoxifying ammonia, so lets say it can do that. But don't rely on prime to do the job for you. The only surefire way to remove ammonia and nitrite from an uncycled tank is water changes and prime should only be a backup to those.

 

[Charlotte-47]

There you go. That test result makes a little more sense. I would still get that 2nd opinion though.

Prime wont do anything to the nitrite test. There is actually a lot of debate on whether prime actually does detoxify ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as they claim. Even if it does work, all it will do is detoxify them for a day or 2, not remove them, and they will still show up in a test.

Seachem have absolutely no evidence that their products detoxify ammonia, nitrite or nitrate. Their own website Q+A section readily admit the product wasnt designed to remove nitrite or nitrate, and their claim that it does is 100% based on anecdotal evidence and nothing in the way of analysis. If it does detoxify nitrite and nitrate they have no idea why or how it works. At least there are known mechanisms for detoxifying ammonia, so lets say it can do that. But don't rely on prime to do the job for you. The only surefire way to remove ammonia and nitrite from an uncycled tank is water changes and prime should only be a backup to those.

Thank you for the info. I’ll take some of their water to get it tested either today or tomorrow. Thank you for pointing out I was probably testing wrongly on the Nitrates, I wouldn’t have double checked without you saying that.

Is the Sure start a better option to use to lower the Nitrite? I won’t use the Prime now after what you’ve said. I did 50% water change last night in 3 stages. Should I change more today? The tank is still so cloudy even after the 50%. Also is it safe to feed them while the Nitrite is still there? They are really hungry.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Im not really sure what surestart is (apart from the childrens centres throughout the UK). There are products called safe start and quickstart. These contain bacteria that are supposed to help establish your cycle. Generally they do nothing though. It wont hurt adding these, but its probably just a waste of money. But its your money and it might help establish your cycle.

Prime is a great water conditioner. The cost per water change is lower than pretty much all other water conditioners. You need to use a water conditioner everytime you change water and prime is a very good value for money water conditioner. The 3 i would recommend are Seachem Prime, API Tap Water Conditioner or API Aqua Essential as being the best value for money on the market.

I use prime because of those 3 products prime is the only one my LFS stocks in half litre bottles.

All im saying with prime is not to rely 100% on its claims to detoxify things. Its a great water conditioner.

What water conditioner are you using?

 

[Charlotte-47]

Im not really sure what surestart is (apart from the childrens centres throughout the UK). There are products called safe start and quickstart. These contain bacteria that are supposed to help establish your cycle. Generally they do nothing though. It wont hurt adding these, but its probably just a waste of money. But its your money and it might help establish your cycle.

Prime is a great water conditioner. The cost per water change is lower than pretty much all other water conditioners. You need to use a water conditioner everytime you change water and prime is a very good value for money water conditioner. The 3 i would recommend are Seachem Prime, API Tap Water Conditioner or API Aqua Essential as being the best value for money on the market.

I use prime because of those 3 products prime is the only one my LFS stocks in half litre bottles.

All im saying with prime is not to rely 100% on its claims to detoxify things. Its a great water conditioner.

What water conditioner are you using?

Sorry it’s Safe Start that I read about to lower the Nitrites. I use Tetra Aqua Safe as the water conditioner.

I’m going to get the water tested today so I will see what they have although it sounds a bit pointless. I’ll do another water change this afternoon, it all feels very contaminated. I’ll rinse the filter media, is that good to do even with the Nitrite?

 

[Aiken Drum]

If you have nitrite you arent cycled properly. Rinsing filter media isnt going to help with that and could hinder or even remove some of your cycle. Dont touch the filter media until your cycle is fully re-established.

Personally, if you have prime ordered and on the way, then use that while your tank is cycling. When you are cycled, then use up your aqua safe and then use up any prime you have left. Going forward use whatever whatever water conditioner is the cheapest per water change. Its usually one of the 3 ive mentioned.

For example.

500ml of Prime is £24 and will treat 20000 litres of tap water. So a water change on a 200 litre tank costs 24p/water change using Prime.

500ml of Aqua Safe is £14 and will treat 1000 litres of tap water. So a water change on a 200 litre tank costs £2.80/ water change using Aqua Safe.

500ml of Aqua Safe Plus is £19 and will treat 4000 litres of tap water. So a water change on a 200 litre tank costs 95p/ water change using Aqua Safe Plus.