Regal tang question

[fishman]

I have had a regal and velvet dottieback in QT now since 6-11-04 and started running Cupramine on 7/2/04. I went on vacation for a week and came back to see that the Regal has what I can only describe as "black pits" in his face where the black part of his face is...does anyone know what this is and what I can get to fix it? He seems to be normal but his face looks like someone has taken very tiny BB's and shot him. I assume it may be from overexposure to the copper..however I was told that Cupramine isnt bad for the fish like regular copper.
Thanks

 

[Fishboy-from-NY]

no Cupramine is by far the best product to treat fish with ich in the market and the reason for this is BECAUSE IT WORKS. What you tang may have is what they call Black ich and that can't be cured with copper. Please go to the following link and this can show you how to treat your fish. http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/compldiagnodisease/a/aa041701.htm

 

[fishman]

Well after looking at the internet and the past posts here it looks like it is HLLE as most of the pits are in the face area...dont really know what to do from here. I know my main tank if perfect and the QT tank I used carbon last night to remove the cupramine....may take it out today as this appears to poss contribute to HLLE. Dont know whether to move the little guy to the main tank or keep him in the QT and do reg water changes..

 

[Fishboy-from-NY]

How long have you had him in the QT if it has been more than 6 weeks then it's OK, if not you sould keep him in it. HLLE main reason for it happening is bad nutrition and poor water quality. Make sure that you feed it tons of green like nori every day, algae flake like one from Julian Springs called Mixed Algae. Also make sure your water parameters are straight like ammonia, nitrite at 0 and Nitrate less thatn 15PPM. Also, salinity at 1.024 and PH at 8.3. don't remove the copper since it only opens that fish up to secondary infections and thats a beautiful fish to lose I have one that eats like a horse in my display tank.

 

[fishman]

Well I ran carbon last night but pulled it out this morning. Im going to do a water test in a minute and see what I get. Its going to be bad as the water is filthy. Also I have had both of the fish in QT now since 6-11-04. Running Copper since 7/2. Going to see what i can do as he is looking rough for sure.

 

[Fishboy-from-NY]

I would do a 40% water change fast, just make sure the replacment water is exactly the same water parameters as the tank. Also, since you kept him in the tank since 6-11-04 and just recently treated the tank with copper about 3 weeks ago, Did he have ich or marine velvet or did you just added copper for prevention purposes? If indeed he had ich or marine velvet, thne keep him in the QT until 8/11 then see how he is doing then throw him in your display afterwards.

 

[fishman]

Im doing a 8-9 gallon water change as we speak and thought the same thing of keeping him in the QT for a bit longer...cant hurt.
And yes he came down with Ick 2 weeks after being in QT....thus the copper.
Thanks

 

[fishman]

Does anyone know how long it takes for the HLLE spots to heal up? I picked up to Zoe yesterday and also been putting in Vitamin C as well since I got home from vacation. Also started feeding him seaweed daily again. Just want to put him in the main tank SO bad and cant wait to move him. Dont want to move him to soon though in the event its viral or fungal...
Thanks

 

[steve-s]

It will not heal that quickly although once the vitamins are added and water quality improved the HLLE should stop progressing. It will take quite a few weeks before the problem shows any sign of abaiting and could easily result in some scaring that may never go away.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Steve...Do you think I should leave the tang in QT for a bit longer and or treat him with some antibiotics? He was scratching some this morning? I had thought about putting him in the main tank as the water conditions are perfect and stay that way most of the time. I feel bad for the little guy but he is eating great and is doing well otherwise. His face just looks bad. Not redness or whiteness - just dents/little holes in his face and head. Anything I can read that you know of?

 

[steve-s]

If HLLE, antibiotics won't have any effect unless secondary infection sets in. Sounds like you are going about it the right way so far. The last thing you want to do is move the tang back before the proper fallow period for the display tank has passed and there has been at least a full week (preferabley 2) since the treatment was done.

If you place the tang back before being sure the parasite problem is done with it will make matters much worse. Since you just ended the treatment, I'd say it would be a huge risk. The fallow periods about right but you need to be sure there are no re-occurances in the QT'd fish. Just keep doing the water changes to keep up water quality and feed daily with the vitamins

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

I have no parasite in the main tank....The tang has been in the QT since June and has been treated for ick since July 2...I ran Cupramine from 7/2 to 7/27. I know this is a little longer than normal but I was away on vacation for a week. Right before I left I made sure the level of copper was .50 and then when I got back I ran carbon for one night to pull the copper out. Are you saying that I should wait 2 weeks for the tang to heal? Im lost now. Again there is no parasite in the main tank. The tang has never been in there...sorry for the confusion.

 

[steve-s]

ran Cupramine from 7/2 to 7/27. I know this is a little longer than normal but I was away on vacation for a week. Right before I left I made sure the level of copper was .50 and then when I got back I ran carbon for one night to pull the copper out.

Actually 3 weeks is fine when using Cupramine and in fact, some recommend a bit longer than the 2 weeks suggested by the manufacturer.

Are you saying that I should wait 2 weeks for the tang to heal? Im lost now. Again there is no parasite in the main tank. The tang has never been in there...sorry for the confusion.

No I am not refering to the main tank nor the possible HLLE. What I am saying is you should wait at least 7 days after removing the med from the QT to be sure the parasite has been elimintaed. If something went awry (which I doubt) you need to recapture the tang for treatment. Best to leave it in the QT until your sure, 10-14 days is what is typically recommended though.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Im not really worried about the ick part...I think this is LONG gone...what I am concerned about is the HLLE part. Lets say that I leave the tang in QT for another 14 days and the tangs face still looks bad....is there a danger to the rest of the main tank inhabitants because the tang has HLLE?
Also how do you remove the copper from the tank? Water changes or carbon? I had read that carbon may not be a good thing to do as it makes HLLE worse?? Any suggestions on this?

 

[steve-s]

Lets say that I leave the tang in QT for another 14 days and the tangs face still looks bad....is there a danger to the rest of the main tank inhabitants because the tang has HLLE?

HLLE is not contageous.

Also how do you remove the copper from the tank? Water changes or carbon?

Both will work but carbon would be faster.

I had read that carbon may not be a good thing to do as it makes HLLE worse?? Any suggestions on this?

I highly doubt it and nothing has ever been linked to nor proper studies done of the effect of carbon. If it worries you, use a polyfilter.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Thanks Steve for taking the time to help me with this. I know I ask a lot of questions but I had rather learn from other peoples experiences (you) rather than read theories from a book or on line as those may or may not work. Everything you have told me to do to this point has worked so I had rather ask someone like you on questions I have. Its weird as I can call 3 different major LFS (not Petco types either) and get 3 different answers...very frustrating for sure. Coming on here seems to work a lot better!! Thanks for the help.
Im going to keep the tang in QT for another week or two and see what happens...cant hurt. Just very anxious to get him in the main tank but it can wait!! Patience = good results!!

 

[Fishboy-from-NY]

you said that your tang was scarching against the surface, I would not remove him out of the QT until he stops rubbing against the surface or rocks for at least a week. Also, if you keep up with your water changes, you will not have to worry about the HLLE progressing. Just make sure that you stuff the fish with greens and vitamins.

 

[steve-s]

Patience = good results!!

Very well said.

As far as the "flashing" behavour, it is definately a sign of a parasite but keep in mind that HLLE is a skin irritant and just like a parasite can cause the same behavour. With a 3 week treatment in Cupramine I doubt you will have anymore issues but I'm glad you have decided to keep the tang QT's for a bit longer.

Be sure you follow Fishboy-from-NY's advice on the feedings and water changes. It's very important.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishman]

Yeah the tang had not been scratching at all until the HLLE started. I would say that after almost 3.5-4 weeks of cupramine treatment, I dont see how he could have any parasite (speaking of ick). The rubbing he is doing is on his face area. He will rub his face only on the PVC pipes in the tank. This is where the HLLE is. I really feel good about the ick being gone but I want him to recover as much as possible from the HLLE before going into the main tank. My main tank has NO issues and want to keep it that way. And yes I add Vitamin C every day and also have been feeding food soaked in Zoe. I also soak his seaweed with Zoe and sometimes garlic...seems to like this. Also on the meat side I feed him Mysis frozen cubes soaked as well. Is there anything else I need to be feeding him? Any other vitamins?
Thanks

 

[steve-s]

The vitamins I would suggest are either Selcon or Zoecon which are high in [acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym]. The Zoe unto itself is fine but lacks the fatty acids needed to help the fish. Mysys is fine too but don't feed it more than once a week. Keep the diet high in sprulina based foods which are natuarally high in vitamins.

Cheers
Steve