Should I Euthanize my remaining fish??????

[Angela1108]

Methelyne blue is one of the suggested med for columnaris as well as triple sulfa Raising the temp might not be the best idea. Columnaris actually flourishes in higher temps



Here is a pretty lengthy article

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/columnaris.html


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[amyb_70]

I always add some salt during water changes. Last night I read to take the cartridge out but continue to run the filter while medicating. I did that, much to my surprise I just checked on them and I have 0 deaths so far and color has not faded any more. Maybe I needed to get the cartridge out to get on track. Fingers are crossed. Thanks


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[amyb_70]

Angela, it's long and some points are confusing. It does tell me or confirm what brought this on though. When I replaced the heater with new, there were no temp to go by. I had to guess how high/low to turn the dial. Leading me to over heat at 84F. Also the filter died at the same time so I wasn't filtering out BAD Bacteria. I'm still confused as how I treat this. I read it as give salt or peroxide bath, treat tank, hope for the best. Correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks for the article.


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[BillD]

I would disagree that you need to keep meds on hand at all times. In this case if you are going to place them in a bucket, don't use any of the tank water. Put them into clean dechlorinated water. Starting out with water that contains pathogens is a bad way to start. I agree as well with the lower temp. High temps will cause increased bacterial growth, including pathogens and lower dissolved oxygen. The fish in question do fine in an unheated tank. In fact, it is likely that higher temps contributed to the problem. I never heat livebearer tanks.

 

[Angela1108]

Well if things look better with what you are doing now I say keep doing what you are doing and just watch the water parameters carefully (and the fish too)


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[amyb_70]

Bill thank you for the tips, I will put them in the bucket with fresh water and hope for the best. Next question should I break the tank down and start over? If so how do I go about removing the fungus from ornaments and gravel?

Angela, I've read so much I'm not sure if it's colioumsis or the fungus. Sorry don't know how to spell that word. The more I read the more I think it's a fungus or maybe both. Whatever it is, it's awful. The link you sent me shows signs and symptoms of both.


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[Mebbid]

Holy crap.. this thread is a giant charlie foxtrot atm.

Yes, it does indeed sound like columnaris. However, that would be in response to your primary issue here. Have you tested your water parameters at all?

Columnaris is an opportunistic infection that will infect a fish when it's immune response is decreased due to other factors. 99% of the time this is because of declining water parameters.

What's your normal nitrate reading? How about ammonia / nitrite?

 

[davidkohws]

Yesterday I just inject Clear for my fh fish.

 

[dalto]

Without certain meds you just cannot raise fish. people that advise others about water quality so much they just end up confusing them and im getting a little tired of it. The only thing you need to worry about water wise is ammonia and temperature, the other things like GH KH nitrates, they will be fine and adapt to your water, theres really no point of doing anything other than PWC too keep ammonia low and bioload not to high, not too low.

Umm....what?

In all my years of keeping fish, I can count the times I have used meds on one hand. On the other hand, things like water quality seem pretty important. Only people with high KH don't need to worry about pH and KH.

The only times I have needed meds is when I was quarantining new fish and they arrived with some type of parasite. In my experience if you are providing good water quality and qt'ing new fish, infections and disease are pretty rare.

 

[amyb_70]

Holy crap.. this thread is a giant charlie foxtrot atm.



Yes, it does indeed sound like columnaris. However, that would be in response to your primary issue here. Have you tested your water parameters at all?



Columnaris is an opportunistic infection that will infect a fish when it's immune response is decreased due to other factors. 99% of the time this is because of declining water parameters.



What's your normal nitrate reading? How about ammonia / nitrite?

Humm I'm not sure what you mean by the thread being a foxtrot.? Water perimeters are: ammonia and nitrite are 0, nitrate 20, ph 6.5, gh 7.0
I tested the water 2x this week and both readings were like this. It's my understanding that these are fantastic numbers. I'm really thinking the fact that the heater and filter both died at the same time had a huge affect on this. Maybe it was doormit before and this brought it out, I'm not sure. On a good note it's been almost 24 hours and I haven't found a dead fish yet.



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[Brookster123]

Holy good gosh and a pigeon people, fish get sick, remove and move on, if your tank is running properly than these types of issues should not present at all.. I have only qt 'd once, once... poor water will always bring out the worst in fish. Think about the coal miner with blacklung..

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[Fishinfreak]

Umm....what?

In all my years of keeping fish, I can count the times I have used meds on one hand. On the other hand, things like water quality seem pretty important. Only people with high KH don't need to worry about pH and KH.

The only times I have needed meds is when I was quarantining new fish and they arrived with some type of parasite. In my experience if you are providing good water quality and qt'ing new fish, infections and disease are pretty rare.

+1
I've only been in the hobby for a year and only have one nano tank, but i totally agree with this. The only disease ive had so far was ich that came with some tetras from Petco this i just treated by increasing he heat, not meds required.


For you i see a few problems with care. First the water in your tank looks to be only about 2/3-3/4 of the way full, which means you probably only have 15 or so gal of water in there, and alot of fish for that much water. Also, you said you add salt with WCs, and salt can be bad for cories from what I know.

As far as treating diseases goes, I can't be much of a help.

 

[amyb_70]

Holy good gosh and a pigeon people, fish get sick, remove and move on, if your tank is running properly than these types of issues should not present at all.. I have only qt 'd once, once... poor water will always bring out the worst in fish. Think about the coal miner with blacklung..

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Hey, if you dont want to help or read about peoples unhealthy fish you are welcome to look at other discussion sections, there are several to choose from.... FYI my tank was running fine until 2 hardware died the same day, and another FYI if you read the parameters are fantastic, just a bit of bad luck.... Excuse the **** out of me for not knowing how the best way to deal with this is... I did research but i also would like peoples personal experiences and opinions... so dear why dont ya just move it on to the next tread and get over yourself.

 

[Brookster123]

Hey, if you dont want to help or read about peoples unhealthy fish you are welcome to look at other discussion sections, there are several to choose from.... FYI my tank was running fine until 2 hardware died the same day, and another FYI if you read the parameters are fantastic, just a bit of bad luck.... Excuse the **** out of me for not knowing how the best way to deal with this is... I did research but i also would like peoples personal experiences and opinions... so dear why dont ya just move it on to the next tread and get over yourself.

I'll see myself out.. good luck..

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[treemanone2003]

Without certain meds you just cannot raise fish. people that advise others about water quality so much they just end up confusing them and im getting a little tired of it. The only thing you need to worry about water wise is ammonia and temperature, the other things like GH KH nitrates, they will be fine and adapt to your water, theres really no point of doing anything other than PWC too keep ammonia low and bioload not to high, not too low.[/QUOTE]


Totally disagree !!!!! You can raise fish without any meds at all because it is ALL about water quality. I simply can't understand what could be so confusing about 0, 0, and as low as possible. Since every fish is not the same, an ammonia and temp only concept is far off. If that were the case, there wouldn't be need for a master test kit. Some fish won't just "adapt". They will die. The whole point of doing WC's is not just your last sentence, but establishing and maintaining pristine water conditions. This way your fish don't survive but they thrive.


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[Brookster123]

Without certain meds you just cannot raise fish. people that advise others about water quality so much they just end up confusing them and im getting a little tired of it. The only thing you need to worry about water wise is ammonia and temperature, the other things like GH KH nitrates, they will be fine and adapt to your water, theres really no point of doing anything other than PWC too keep ammonia low and bioload not to high, not too low.

Totally disagree !!!!! You can raise fish without any meds at all because it is ALL about water quality. I simply can't understand what could be so confusing about 0, 0, and as low as possible. Since every fish is not the same, an ammonia and temp only concept is far off. If that were the case, there wouldn't be need for a master test kit. Some fish won't just "adapt". They will die. The whole point of doing WC's is not just your last sentence, but establishing and maintaining pristine water conditions. This way your fish don't survive but they thrive.


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I was about to rant here. It's very simple, not everyone can have a beautiful discus tank, not everyone can have a decent angel tank, not everyone can have a crap guppy tank.. you get what you give, i understand water differs from place to place. You do what you have to do to keep the fish you want to keep, whether it be using spring water or having an Rodi unit. You cannot use your crap tap water for sensitive fish and freak out when they all get sick and die at the slightest speed bump or hurdle. . I dunno.. maybe i should shut up. My brothers friend got a husky, he's a supremely lazy person, we all told him he'd be better off with a hamster, he insisted on the husky, I'm no dog psychologist but that dog is not happy.. healthy?? Nope.. 20 lbs under wieght.. some things are not meant for everyone..just because you can buy it does not mean you should have it.. meds huh??

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[amyb_70]

+1
I've only been in the hobby for a year and only have one nano tank, but i totally agree with this. The only disease ive had so far was ich that came with some tetras from Petco this i just treated by increasing he heat, not meds required.


For you i see a few problems with care. First the water in your tank looks to be only about 2/3-3/4 of the way full, which means you probably only have 15 or so gal of water in there, and alot of fish for that much water. Also, you said you add salt with WCs, and salt can be bad for cories from what I know.

As far as treating diseases goes, I can't be much of a help.

okay, i see where your coming from as i look at that tank it is a bit lower on water than i normally keep it.. i was kind of holding out to see if i should do PWC, break the tank down and start over or just cross my fingers and keep going at it.. i suppose if i get no response tonight about what i should do i will decide come the morning.
tested water 2x this week. couldnt ask for a much better reading, so its not the water.. thankyou

 

[Fresh2o]

I don't think the ONE day equipment outage is the cause/trigger of the fish kill. A couple of summers ago a terrible storm hit the mid Atlantic and we experienced a power outage for over 5 days. Temps were in the mid 90s and we were out of town for about 7 days. Fish were fine. Probably because I under stock.

Regardless of what you do next, you should consider a quarantine tank for all new additions moving forward.


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[venymae]

So here is my personal opinion. Yes, having a filter and heater out for a whole day could have put a lot of stress on your fish especially depending on how heavy your stocking was.

I would NOT break down your tank. I would do a really good clean. Old but well rinsed tooth brush on any obviously dirty ornaments (take them out, clean, put them back), spot clean the glass, a thorough gravel vacuum, and a big WC. Since your fish are not exhibiting any current symptoms put the temperature back down to their optimum temperature. Continue to monitor them and take daily water reading if possible to make sure conditions are good for healing.

Here is why I suggest this:
-When you do a big WC it removes a lot of the bacteria/virus/parasite that might be living in the water and prevents reinfection of your fish (it can't infect the fish if it's not in the water!) giving the fish a better chance at fighting the infection
-Some parasites/bacteria live part of their life cycles dormant in the sediment of the gravel. A large vacuum will remove a lot of them.
-Breaking down a tank and temporarily housing your fish can stress them, causing there immune system to be depressed and leaving them vulnerable to another episode of whatever it was that attacked your tank the first time
-As with any animal, good living conditions allows the body to function optimally and be best able to combat disease on it's own. That is why regular WC, gravel vacuuming, and water testing are so stressed by many of the members on this forum. (as well as good food!)
-Medication has a time and a place. But, medications also have side effects and many put stresses on fish. If you are using the wrong medication you may actually be making your fish WORSE than if you just helped your fish combat the disease on it's own through optimal tank conditions.


What would I like to know more about to help you better ->
Give me the run down on your tank.
-What size is it?
-What are the current occupants?
-What were the original occupants?
-What is your WC schedule (be honest, no one should be here to judge- but to help)
-What do you use to test your water? (strips, liquid, the LFS)
-What kind of filter do you have?
-When you replaced your filter did you use the old media to seed the new? or did you just use the new?

I know a couple of these questions have already been answered, but it's nice to see all the info in one place, also testing water daily after getting a new filter is never a bad thing, just to make sure you don't go through a new cycle/mini-cycle which can take a while to show up.

Hope this helps and your fish make a full recover!

Also, remember that there is more to your water chemistry than just ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Who knows what other waste product your fish might be sensitive to!

 

[amyb_70]

So here is my personal opinion. Yes, having a filter and heater out for a whole day could have put a lot of stress on your fish especially depending on how heavy your stocking was.

I would NOT break down your tank. I would do a really good clean. Old but well rinsed tooth brush on any obviously dirty ornaments (take them out, clean, put them back), spot clean the glass, a thorough gravel vacuum, and a big WC. Since your fish are not exhibiting any current symptoms put the temperature back down to their optimum temperature. Continue to monitor them and take daily water reading if possible to make sure conditions are good for healing.

Here is why I suggest this:
-When you do a big WC it removes a lot of the bacteria/virus/parasite that might be living in the water and prevents reinfection of your fish (it can't infect the fish if it's not in the water!) giving the fish a better chance at fighting the infection
-Some parasites/bacteria live part of their life cycles dormant in the sediment of the gravel. A large vacuum will remove a lot of them.
-Breaking down a tank and temporarily housing your fish can stress them, causing there immune system to be depressed and leaving them vulnerable to another episode of whatever it was that attacked your tank the first time
-As with any animal, good living conditions allows the body to function optimally and be best able to combat disease on it's own. That is why regular WC, gravel vacuuming, and water testing are so stressed by many of the members on this forum. (as well as good food!)
-Medication has a time and a place. But, medications also have side effects and many put stresses on fish. If you are using the wrong medication you may actually be making your fish WORSE than if you just helped your fish combat the disease on it's own through optimal tank conditions.


What would I like to know more about to help you better ->
Give me the run down on your tank.
-What size is it?
-What are the current occupants?
-What were the original occupants?
-What is your WC schedule (be honest, no one should be here to judge- but to help)
-What do you use to test your water? (strips, liquid, the LFS)
-What kind of filter do you have?
-When you replaced your filter did you use the old media to seed the new? or did you just use the new?

I know a couple of these questions have already been answered, but it's nice to see all the info in one place, also testing water daily after getting a new filter is never a bad thing, just to make sure you don't go through a new cycle/mini-cycle which can take a while to show up.

Hope this helps and your fish make a full recover!

Also, remember that there is more to your water chemistry than just ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Who knows what other waste product your fish might be sensitive to!

Here goes
20 gal long
Currently have very young guppy, endler, 2 guppy male, balloon Molly, 3 otos, who appear to be dying.
Originally: guppies, young small endler, 4 balloon Molly, 4 black Molly & 2 Cory cats. ( I NOW realize I was way over stocked, even though they are baby fed
WC at least every 7-10 days, this is a full cleaning not just topping off the tank.


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