Shrimp acting weird, fish are now too.

[bflem]

75 gallon moderately heavy planted tank. Eheim 2217. Seachem black sand topped with play sand from Lowes.
Ammonia 0-0.25
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
pH 7.2
Well water

This is driving me insane. I need suggestions. Wed night I watched my fish after work. Everything was fine. I trimmed a few leaves from my vals and went upstairs to eat dinner. When I came back down the shrimp were twitching toward the surface and free falling back down to the substrate. I didnt know what just happened so I did a 40-50% water change and turned down my CO2.

The next morning the shrimp were better but stumbling around. I did another 40-50% water change. When I added the new water the started twitching around again. Went to work.

After work they still didnt look right. Did another water change. They started twitching again.

This morning the fish were schooled at the surface. Not really gasping for air but at the surface. Tonite they are still there and have their fins clamped. Did another water change. Shrimp freak out again. I don't know what else to do. Any suggestions would be great. Thanks.

 

[54seaweed]

parameters look ok
check your heater may be giving off stray current that would defiantly get them dancing

 

[bflem]

How do I check that? I don't feel a zap when I put my hands in the water.

 

[bflem]

And I think it has something to do with the water. When I moved a few shrimp and fish into a different tank the shrimp in that tank started to freak out. So it must be something in the water that got transferred by the net.

 

[54seaweed]

the way I have always checked was with a volt meter ,
another way unplug the heater see if there is a change in activity , if not plug that back in now try filter basically it's a process of elimination , but heaters are the most common to go bad so that's why I went straight for the heater .

 

[bflem]

Well its not the heater. Any other ideas?

 

[daquaticb]

I'm no expert so just throwing this out there. I've read that you can overdose with co2. Not sure but I think I may have read not to co2 at night. Or possibly copper overdose from fertilizers. Just throwing a few things out there to check on.

 

[daquaticb]

https://youtu.be/XTBMy4Ts1Mo

 

[daquaticb]

It could actually be the same problem as this guy had also

 

[Brookster123]

Are you using any water conditioner? Your well may have something leaching in the fish/inverts don't like??

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[Toad]

When is the last time you had your well water tested? Any possibility of anything leeching into it, heavy rains etc?

And yes you can kill your fish with co2 at night, I think there was a post last year where a guy woke up to a dead tank and realized he was still pumping over night that night. That's usually why they run a bubbler at night too.

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[bflem]

Well I think I figured it out. After a few days of thinking I realized that the initial event happened on the same day I put flea and tick medicine on my dogs. I probably pet them when I got home from work and then reached into the tank.

 

[Toad]

Oh yeah that would definitely do it lpl, hope things are better now

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[bflem]

I lost 24 fish and probably about 18 shrimp. A few fish and shrimp pulled through. I'm just glad I figured out what happened. It's not so bad when you realize/learn something. I would have gone crazy if I never figured it out.

 

[Kazin]

Are you 100% sure it was the medicine residue on your hands? What is the chemical name of the medicine? Some of these medicines are actually purposely used in shrimp tanks in small doses, so there's a chance that this may not have been the cause.

I've read reports of shrimp and fish freaking out after trimming plants. The thought is that the plants absorb toxins from the tank over time to the point that cutting their leaves at some future point releases toxins into the water. Maybe consider trimming less frequently? Is this an older tank (1+ year?).

Glad the rest of your fish/shrimp are ok now. It really hurts to lose a whole bunch.

 

[bflem]

I can't be 100% certain. The active ingredient in the medicine was permethrin. Based on the timing of the initial event I would say I am 95% sure this was the cause. I have trimmed plants in that tank many times without a response from the fish/shrimp. The tank is only a few months old so I don't think there could have been a large accumulation of toxins within that amount of time, and I am very consistent about weekly water changes.

The funny thing about it is that all of the hair/thread algae I had in the tank turned red and is gone. Also, my plants grew like crazy over the past week. Perhaps the larger and more frequent water changes I performed to remove the toxins benefited the plants.

The half life of permethrin in an aquatic environment is 50-70 days and it binds to the sediment. Sunlight helps break down the chemical. I think if I continue with large water changes once a week my tank should be back to normal in a month or two. I'm certainly not rushing to add fish and shrimp back in it though. I'm just going to watch the survivors and enjoy the boost in plant growth.

 

[Kazin]

I can't be 100% certain. The active ingredient in the medicine was permethrin. Based on the timing of the initial event I would say I am 95% sure this was the cause. I have trimmed plants in that tank many times without a response from the fish/shrimp. The tank is only a few months old so I don't think there could have been a large accumulation of toxins within that amount of time, and I am very consistent about weekly water changes.

The funny thing about it is that all of the hair/thread algae I had in the tank turned red and is gone. Also, my plants grew like crazy over the past week. Perhaps the larger and more frequent water changes I performed to remove the toxins benefited the plants.

The half life of permethrin in an aquatic environment is 50-70 days and it binds to the sediment. Sunlight helps break down the chemical. I think if I continue with large water changes once a week my tank should be back to normal in a month or two. I'm certainly not rushing to add fish and shrimp back in it though. I'm just going to watch the survivors and enjoy the boost in plant growth.

All right, I'm convinced that it was this accidental contamination then. Permethrin is known to be extremely toxic to aquatic inverts in low quantities. I hope that your tank recovers soon!

https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.n...original/1428423426/permethrin.pdf?1428423426