Sick Engineeer Goby

[faerykisses]

Hello All. Just a question about my engineer goby, he seems to have developed some growths around his mouth, they are white and look like pimples. He is eating fine, although he swims away when I come near the tank, so I can't get a really good look at the bumps. Levels are as follows:

Temp: 79
Amonia:0
Nitrites:0
PH: 8.2
Nitrates: 10
Salinity:1.022

Tankmates:

Coral banded shrimp x1
Clear Damsel x1
Feather Duster x1
Black urchin x1
Flame scallop x1
various snails
various hermit crabs

No pics available, sorry.

His behavior seems normal I just noticed that the bumps are clearly around his mouth, no where on his body just his mouth. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

-Crys.

 

[steve-s]

How long have you had them (it)?

Could be a few issues. These guys are furious tunnelers and can get abrassions quite easily. This can lead to mild bacterial infections and common sores. There is also so possibility of running into a bristleworm occasionally.

I wouldn't worry too much just yet but definately keep an eye out if it gets worse. Do a few good water changes (several over the next week) with well aged/aerated SW to lower any possible DOC that may feed opportunistic bacteria and make sure the foods fed are fortified with a good marine liquid vitamin before use.

Cheers
Steve

 

[faerykisses]

Hello, and thanks for the reply.

I've had the goby since 11/12/05, and I am really enjoying him.

He has been tunneling here and there, he found a favorite spot under a rock and made himself a tight fitting tunnel. Lately though, he has been spending more time outside his tunnel and thats when I noticed the sores on his mouth. I have witnessed him picking up rocks and moving them one by one with his mouth.

I'll keep an eye on him and hope for the best, he seems to be pretty hardy and is still eating well...my QT tank is ready to go, should I QT him now?

Thanks, I appreciate all help.

-Crys.

 

[steve-s]

my QT tank is ready to go, should I QT him now? .

At this point there's no need from the info you've given so far. If the water changes are stepped up a bit and the foods fed are highly nutritious, the fish will recover just fine on it's own. Intervension is often not needed unless infection sets in and/or it progresses in severity.

This is something that will come up from time to time with fish like this so don't be alarmed if it returns in future. You can reduce the frequency by making sure water quality is at it's peak and the fish's immune system properly supported. If available, I would suggest cean Nutrition branded frozen foods. They contain Beta Glucan and will aid the fish in self healing.

Cheers
Steve

 

[faerykisses]

I've heard of several people using garlic in addition to feeding for better nutrition...can some one give me some insight into this. Is it specialized garlic, or minced or what...not sure. Thanks.

 

[Brenden]

Usually garlic extract like garlic extreme (very strong) but regular minced garlic will work.

 

[faerykisses]

I guess I can try putting some of that in the tank...I use it to cook with often. Should I rinse it first or anything?? I've never put anything in my tank except food....

So just a pinch or so should do, you think?

 

[steve-s]

If you use the fresh garlic as apposed to the liquid extract, be very sure it is a fresh as possible and from a new clove. Do not use the pre minced store bought. You don't know how old it is or exactly what preservative/process used in making it.

Take a new clove of garlic and crush it. Place it in a small shallow dish with the food for that days feeding and add some tank water. Allow to soak in the fridge (preferabley covered) for a few hours to overnight. Remove the garlic before feeding drain the excess water to remove phosphorus and feed the tank.

Alternately if making your own blender mush, the galic can be "pureed" right along with the other ingredients. This method will have greater impact in terms of health benefits.

Cheers
Steve

 

[faerykisses]

Thanks Steve!! I appreciate the help. He is still sad looking at times, hanging out at the bottom of the tank...and not moving much. But other times, he is up and moving all over the tank, so much so, he moved my thermometer! I hope the garlic will help...he is a tough little guy and is not giving up easily. So I don't want to give up on him. Thanks again!!!

 

[steve-s]

He is still sad looking at times, hanging out at the bottom of the tank...and not moving much.

Actually this is pretty common for this species. They are very "shy" and react quickly to movement. They rarely venture out. Watch from a distance where they cannot see you or any movement outside the tank. Most likely you will see a bit more activity.

But other times, he is up and moving all over the tank,

Watch this kind of behavior and be sure the tank top is protected from fish jumping. More commonly when these guys do this they are looking for "greener pastures". You've only had them about a month so they may not have completely settled in.

Cheers
Steve

 

[faerykisses]

R.I.P. Engineer Goby 12-14-05

I am so upset about this one. Last night, he was eating fine and hanging out in a little rock cave. Then all the sudden I noticed that he was swimming all funky like. After checking him out for a while I noticed he was swimming irratically, he would go to the top like he was looking for a place to jump out...and he was swimming in a twisting fashion. I checked the aerator, thinking he needed air, but that wasnt it. I did a small water change, and checked the salinity and nothing seemed to be helping him...he was slowly getting worst.

His mouth looked the worst I had seen it, where as before there were only white bumps, he now had black on his mouth, like rot almost....and his mouth was really red, like bloody almost. Then when I noticed him swimming around...I could see inside his gills...because he was swimming up side down, and his gills were swollen and really red too.

He didn't make it through the night.

I feel like a really bad fish keeper. All my fish with the exception of one clear blue damsel have perished.... I've only had 3 total...

The LFS I went to told me they don't even have a QT tank when I tried to take the last fish back. I really feel like the livestock I am getting from that particular LFS is not very good...I won't be buying any more fish from them...

But I also feel that it could be something I am doing, but I don't know what!!

Ugh.

 

[steve-s]

Very sorry for your loss.

I am a bit confused though, you did not mention this redness before. Was it suddenly there "overnight"?

FWIW, if the fish showed no definable symptoms other than the bumps, there's not much you could have done for it anyway. For it to go downhill in a day or two, more commonly there's no stopping that. I am very concerned though that something is affecting your tank. Bacterial issues if the cause, are not good news.

Can you please describe the history of the other fish losses and any details you can think of to include along with tank specs at the time.

Mabye we can nail this down and prevent future losses.

Cheers
Steve

 

[faerykisses]

Yes, the goby displayed the redness pretty much overnight. It wasn't there one night, just the bumps were. Then when I got home from work the next day, I noticed the redness, and then it got worst as the night progressed.

The other fish were Damsels that I lost. One was a 3 striped damsel, and he was the one that had the long white stringy stuff coming from his anal fin, he also had was looked like a skin problem. His skin was getting really thin around his face.

The Domino damsel had just about the same thing. Thin skin around his face, or eroding skin.

The tankmates are only one coral banded shrimp, one feather duster, one black spiny sea urchin, and one flame scallop. I also have various hermit crabs and snails about 5-10 of each.

I've only had the three damsels (one of which is still alive and the only fish in my tank now) and the engineer goby.

Other than that I have some live rock (about 35 lbs) and a crushed coral/sand bed about 2 inches thick. Side note: have two different types of live rock. Got most of my live rock from LFS#1 and got a little bit from LFS#2. I noticed the stuff from LFS#2 is a better quality rock; it already had stuff growing on it. Can mixing the two types of live rock create problems for my tank??? I rinse the rock before I add to tank. (55 gallon tank)

I haven't noticed anything different about the tank, except those small white "pod like" guys on the glass, which Fluff said were ok and a good sign of a well going tank. I scraped some of those off and they didn't really come back.

Yesterday I noticed some brown sludge looking stuff (algae?) on the back glass and some on the aerator...not sure what this is, but it is fairly new....noticed it yesterday.

I feed frozen brine and some flake, and then DT for the scallop and feather duster.

Water has never been bad or off the scale in anyway since we started. All water testing we have done had come out perfect...zeros across the board, and a good PH level.

Wednesday I added some water due to the evaporation I noticed....but other than that, nothing major has changed in the tank.

On a side note, when I got home yesterday my shrimp had molted for the second time. I left his "carcass" in there bcuz I read it could be good nutrition for the shrimp...

I wish there was more details I could give, but to be honest, we've taken the whole process pretty slow, so I have no idea what could have gone wrong. The only thing I can think of is this:

Bought 3 damsels and one engineer goby from LFS #1

*only one damsel is alive out of the 4

Bought flame scallop, feather duster, snails, hermit crabs and urchin from LFS #2

*all livestock bought from LFS#2 are doing great, they eat well and show no signs of sickness/deterioration.

My only conclusion is that its the stock from the LFS#1, which sucks cuz we are in their "members program" which gives us a discount when we shop there, but I refuse to buy fish from them anymore....

Also, LFS#1 has no advice for me when I tell them that the fish I got from them are always sick and end up dying....

Lastly, shouldn't a LFS have a quarantine tank....my LFS#1 told me they don't have one...

Thanks for the help Steve-S. I appreciate your concern and your comments. Thanks again!!!

 

[steve-s]

From what I can tell from the info you've given, there is definately something amiss in the tank. More than likely some type of parasite (worm or protozoan) that is persisting via the "ongoing" fish population. How long was it from fish death to new fish added and has there been any time inbetween without a fish population?

What may actually fix your problem is fallowing the tank for about two months. It's not a guarantee but with most types of parasites, they will die out without a fish host. You will need to QT the existing damsel and I would suggest closely monitoring it for any signs of possible contagions. To suggest a prophylactic treatment at this point would not be prudent due to the fact we as yet have no real idea as to the true cause. I am hoping not a problem like fish TB but with the one damsel that's stuck it out this far, I'm somewhat confidant this may not be the case.

You will need to ensure all future additions (fish or otherwise) are properly quarantined before adding to your display if you want to ensure these problems are kept in check.

I would however suggest using garlic in the foods to help with (if any) internal worms. Did any of the fish appear emaciated no matter how much they ate?

When the fish exibited the skin problem was it red or white, did the scales appear to be standing on end and was there any sign of excess mucus?


On to some of your Q's....

Can mixing the two types of live rock create problems for my tank???

Only if the rock itself was not properly cured and added to a tank containing pre existing livestock. The water quality degredation would supress the fish's immune function and allow for opportunistsic bacterial issues, viral and/or certain parasites that may be present. The rock itself can if purchased from tanks containing fish also tranfer pathogens/disease/parasites along with it.

As to mixing different rock types alone, no.

Yesterday I noticed some brown sludge looking stuff (algae?) on the back glass and some on the aerator...not sure what this is, but it is fairly new....noticed it yesterday.

This could be an indication water quality is not completely optimum. Check all of your water quality numbers and chemistry to see if anything is amiss. What water source do you use? Foods used can also be a contributor...

I feed frozen brine and some flake, and then DT for the scallop and feather duster.

Be wary on the amount of liquid foods used for filter feeders, they are notorious for fouling water quality. You need to stay on top of water changes and employ proper skimming/carbon use. FWIW, DT's phyto won't do much for the scallop.

Brine and flake are very poor choices for most fish species. The species you seem to have a preference for are for the most part omnivors. You should honestly consider a better "all 'round" food choice, preferabley frozen, not dehydrated or freeze dried. They are usually poor in nutritional value and lousy in phosphorus and other algae fueling substances. Either make your own blender mush supplimented with vitamins (which will also help feed the scallop) or buy one. Personally I recommend the Ocean nutrition products, I also like Hikari branded mysis (much smaller than most and easily consumed). Be sure foods contain both meat and vegetable matter.

Lastly, shouldn't a LFS have a quarantine tank....my LFS#1 told me they don't have one

Unfortunately most don't. They simpley add copper regents to the tank as a "gunshot" aproach. Copper is very specific in what it will treat effectively and by and large the fish can still carry a wide range of pathogens/disease. The other concern with this style of disease management is the concentrations are usually not monitored correctly. Either too high or too low a dosage being used. Prolonged exposure to copper is also quite dibilitating to the fish immune funtion and internal organs. Often leaving the fish in a much worse state than it could have been.

Cheers
Steve