Sick or old fancy goldfish

[nikkih]

We have a fancy fantail/comet cross (we believe)female? goldfish.

She has developed red sores on her body and streaks in her fins which we believe to be a bacteria infection.

She had this before (over two years ago) and we discovered that there were issues with the water (very high nitrate) and we ended up putting her in a hospital tank with some medicine whilst we completely cleaned and redid the tank. She recovered in about 5 days.

This time, her water quality is perfect. But we do think she’s quite old. We’ve had her since my sister gave her and the tank to us back in Easter 2019 so 3.5 years. And my sis claimed she’d been alive for at least 5 years before that.

So I’m just about to add aquarium salt. And I thought maybe some melafix? I could move her to the small aquarium again and treat her with the blue stuff we used before but… I think this is old age and I don’t want to stress her out.

She’s the only fish in her 20US gallon tank (and always has been). I guess I could add the blue stuff in directly - but that would kill the bio in the filter wouldn’t it? How do I protect that? And if she was to pass - would the tank be usable after the blue stuff had been in it? It stains if I recall.

I obviously want to help my fish - we’re very attached to her. But if she’s old and I’m just making her uncomfortable- we’ll I don’t want to do that either.

Any advice on what measures I should take to save my fish or if this is just old age - I’d be very grateful.

 

[nikkih]

Looking at pictures - I don’t think this fish has comet in her. I think she’s pure fantail. It was just something a person at the fish shop suggested when we showed them a photo once.

But my sister had told me it was just a fantail so I don’t know for sure.

 

[Colin_T]

Any chance we can see some pictures of the fish to confirm if it's a fantail or comet, and what disease it has?

Goldfish can live for more than 20 years so an 8 year old fish is not old.

Red sores on the body are usually ulcers (goldfish ulcer disease?) and need medicated food but don't do anything until we identify the problem.

Red lines in the fins are normally caused by poor water quality (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and low pH.
What are the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & pH readings of the tank water (in numbers)?

-----------

How often do you do water changes and how much do you change?
Do you gravel clean the substrate when you do a water change?
Do you dechlorinate the new water before adding it to the tank?

What sort of filter is on the tank?
How often and how do you clean the filter?

What do you feed the fish?
Are there any live plants in the tank?

What is the blue stuff you are thinking about adding?

How much salt are you adding?
You normally add 1-2 heaped tablespoons of rock salt (aquarium salt) for every 20 litres (5 gallons) of water. With goldfish you can increase that up to a total of 4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres, but post pictures before increasing it to that level.
Keep the salt in the tank for 2-4 weeks.

 

[nikkih]

Thanks for the advice so far. I will send photos of current status in the morning if she’s still with us. It’s middle of the night here.

Levels as tested were pH 7.4, Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20 (the guide said anything over 40 was a concern).

Water change is approx. 25% once a week, sometimes slightly longer gap if we’re away. We use the gravel cleaner at this time and do not overfeed. I start by emptying some of her tank water into a single use bucket so that can I can clean the filter components. (I was worried I’d affected the bio health of the tank as I’d changed half of the cartridges at the last clean - just before she got ill) but I’d left the ceramic rings untouched so I thought there should be enough good bacteria left in them plus the sponge and filter component that I didn’t change that it would be alright to do this).

20 years old?? Wow that’s very encouraging. I had read 5-10 years for fantails.

Im trying to find the name of the blue stuff from last time. Im in the UK - you can’t get medicated food I don’t think - I’ believe I tried last time. The blue stuff was the closest to an antibiotic/healing thing I could put in the water - as soon as I find the name for it I’ll share.

Photos are a few years old.

 

[nikkih]

She’s paler in the the top photo as she’s older then.

Oh re: plants. No we don’t have any. We used to but she kept ripping them apart and then they’d float into and jam the filter.

 

[nikkih]

Methylene blue was the treatment that worked before for the red pest (which is what this looks like). Back then we identified a water quality issue of nitrate and were able to resolve it (whilst she recovered in a smaller tank) through a thorough tank cleaning including replacement of substrate and changing the water supply going forward.

This time I can’t see an obvious issue - water levels back come fine.

I’m not opposed to trying the treatment that worked before - the methylene blue in a separate tank for a few days. I just thought she was really old and didn’t want to stress her out unnecessarily.

 

[Aiken Drum]

How big is the fish?

 

[Colin_T]

If the fish has 2 tails, it is a fantail.

The body shape looks like a Ryukan fantail goldfish. Ryukans just have a higher body than normal fantail goldfish.


--------------------

Methylene Blue will wipe out filter bacteria and stain silicon blue. Silicon is the glue that holds the glass aquarium together. Methylene Blue is quite safe to use and kills bacteria and fungus. However, if you do use it, do it in a spare tank or take the filter out and put it on another tank while you treat that one.

You could try salt first. Salt can be used to treat minor bacterial and fungal infections and won't affect the filter bacteria. See directions below for salt. But try to post a current picture before adding anything.


--------------------

PLANTS
Goldfish are primarily vegetarian and need plant matter in their diet. This is the reason the fish ate your live plants. Duckweed is a small floating plant and grows well in or outdoors. You could grow it outside in a tub and bring some in each week to feed the fish. You can also grow other plants outside during the warmer weather and bring them in each week for the fish to eat.

Some people feed peas, pumpkin, zucchini, cucumber and spinach to their fish. You can feed the veges raw or cook them. Just make sure they are free of chemicals and give them a good wash before adding to the tank. You can cut them up into little pieces with a pair of scissors and offer a few bits at a time. Let the fish eat as much as it wants and then stop feeding and remove uneaten food. Do this every couple of days and it will supplement the normal flake/ pellet diet and improve the fish's overall health and immune system.


--------------------

FILTERS
If you have a filter and the directions say you should replace the filter media/ materials every month, disregard that. It is a sales ploy by companies to make you give them your money. Filter media (including pads & cartridges) should only be replaced when they start to fall apart. If they are still intact and not breaking apart, just squeeze them out in a bucket of tank water and re-use them.

If you have white granules in the filter pad, it is Zeolite and adsorbs ammonia from the water, which will stop the beneficial filter bacteria developing. You can cut a slit in the end of the cartridge and tip the Zeolite into the bin and re-use the pad.

If you have carbon (black granules) in a filter pad, you can remove the carbon too. It is not necessary in most tanks.

You can buy sponges for different brands of filters and use a pair of scissors to cut the sponge to fit in your filter. Sponges last for years and get squeezed out in a bucket of tank water and re-used. I used AquaClear sponges but there are plenty of other brands available. Just find one that is slightly bigger than your filter pad/ cartridge, and cut it to fit. You can put the sponge in with the filter pads for a couple of months and then remove one of the pads and replace it with another bit of sponge. Or just put a big block of sponge in the filter but leave the ceramic beads in the filter so you still have some bacteria to keep the water clean.

You can also get cylindrical sponges with a hole in the centre. These sponges normally go inside an internal power filter. They come in a couple of sizes and usually fit over the intake strainer of most external power filters where that can act as a prefilter and additional filtration for the tank.


--------------------

SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), sea salt, swimming pool salt, or any non iodised salt (sodium chloride) to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

If you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

When you first add salt, add the salt to a small bucket of tank water and dissolve the salt. Then slowly pour the salt water into the tank near the filter outlet. Add the salt over a couple of minutes.

 

[nikkih]

Thank you everyone. Sorry for the delay in responding - I have been busy cleaning the spare tank as it’s been in storage. The methylene blue will arrive tomorrow. I added salt as per instructions yesterday but the infection is definitely worse. The melafix has just arrived - I’ll add that for 24 hrs until I can move her across to the methylene blue.

I will definitely take on board the plant / veg comments. We feed her peas occasionally but probably not regularly enough.

She definitely had two tails and a long fan tail - unfortunately it’s all streaked at the moment which is sad. The fan tail is about 4-5 inches long. Her body is about 3.5-4 inches from her nose to the start of her fan tail. She’s very round.

Re: filter components - it’s a Fluval U3. I hadn’t changed any of the cartridges in over a year but they were starting to disintegrate so I planned to change one half and then do the half in a month or so.

Thanks for all the thoughts - I’ll keep you posted.

We will hopefully nurse her better in the same way as before - I just didn’t want to be cruel if she was old and it was unnecessary stress. Then I’ll work to incorporate some of the suggestions above - Eg plants to improve her immunity.

 

[Aiken Drum]

At 8 years a goldfish should be fully grown adult size, so 6 to 8 inches. Yours is a little on the small size and this could be due to its living environment. 20 gallons is a little on the small side for a goldfish, and this will lead to stunting, which leads to other health issues and ultimately a shorter lifespan.

Thats not to say you shouldn't do your best to look after your fish going forward, but 8 to 10 years is good going for keeping a goldfish in that size of tank.

 

[nikkih]

Thank you for that - looking at the fantail sites they seemed to suggest 6-8 in inches in total including tail and that the body would easily fit in your hand. She’s larger than my hand so I’m not sure she is stunted. One of the things we did do when we took over her care was spend time with the local aquarium shop - one we trust - to confirm the tank would be big enough for her life cycle. We were told she was lucky to have a tank that big as she’s a fantail not a regular fancy goldfish so won’t get as big. But it’s why we’ve never put another fish with her.

Anyway I’ll look into her tank size further and get confirmation of this so that I can make sure she’s in the right set-up. Thanks again.

 

[Aiken Drum]

Full grown adult size is 6 to 8 inches excluding tail.