slow cycle..no nitrites

[MarshlDillon]

I think i am getting to the normal antsy stage in fishless cycling But have had a couple things confusing me.
I have a 29g tall with a aquaclear 70(no charcoal)
PH 8.2 and hard water
temp 80-82 deg ferinheit
I originally only dosed amm. To 1.5ppm by day 6 it was down to .50 with what looked to me to be a slight amount of nitrite(0-.25) so i dosed back up to 2ppm amm. Fastforward to day 11 back down to .50 amm but still only 0-.25 nitrite and no nitrate. So heres my quandary...why have ammonia levels been (slowly) going down with little or no nitrite?
also why can i not seem to get down to 0 amm. But seem stuck at .50
sorry for the long post any advice is appreciated.

 

[ScotJudd]

I think it's just early days. The ammonia to nitrite bacteria are still multiplying and the nitrite to nitrate bacteria have yet to form, which is common as they take much longer to establish. If you were at 4-6 weeks then maybe you have stalled but at 11 days your progress seems natural.
You didn't say if you had seeded your filter with media from another tank, by far the quickest way to kick start a fish less cycle. I don't have much faith in bottled bacteria but some people have had success.
When I start a cycle I have raised ammonia to 4-5 ppm until nitrates have been seen and then reduce to 2 ppm until after 24 hours ammonia and nitrites are zero and nitrates are high.
In the early days I have found it important to keep a good ammonia supply and not to keep looking for a fall. Nitrate production is your aim and without constant feeding the bacteria can't multiply.
Best of luck and be patient.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[MarshlDillon]

Thanks for the reply...im currently at day 13 just havent seen any movement since day 11..so i should redose ammonia? Was looking to see a 0 to prove im actually processing ammonia as opposed to it just mysteriously dwindling as i dont see much if any nitrite. I havent been able to get a hold of any established media unfortunately. Also was thinking about doing a pwc. any opinion on if that would speed up or slow the process? Or just up the amm. To 4 or so this time?

 

[ScotJudd]

Hi. Yes, I would up the ammonia to around 4ppm. I would not water change unless either the nitrite or nitrate go off the colour chart. Just WC to reduce to reasonably readable levels and then up the ammonia to 4ppm again. There is a train of thought that excessive nitrite or nitrate can stall a cycle. I go along with this thought.
If you get nitrates without nitrites then don't worry, you simply missed the nitrite spike. I have NEVER had a nitrite test reading but my tank fully cycled.
Keep up the good work, you WILL get there.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[Mebbid]

If you are seeing a drop in ammonia then you should be seeing an increase in nitrate. The nitrogen has to go somewhere.

Are you certain the nitrate test is being followed to the letter including timed shaking of rhe bottles?

 

[MarshlDillon]

Yep have checked and double checked i am following directions exactly and test kit is not expired...im thinking maybe i wasnt originally adding enough ammonia to see much nitrite and that my nitrite to nitrate bacteria havent gotten started yet. I dosed up to 4ppm ammonia last night.currently at 4ppm ammonia .25 nitrite I will post updates. Fingers crossed.

 

[ScotJudd]

That's good. Now you have a nitrite reading your bacteria will start to establish to convert it to nitrate. Be patient!
Bet you're fed up of hearing that?.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[MarshlDillon]

No im fully prepared for the patience advise...worse listening to the wifes constant asking "are we ever going to have anything living in there?"...my reponse is we already do...bacteria! lol
thanks again for the advise

 

[spoonman]

you should keep dosing up to 4ppm every couple of days. The cycle is done when you process 4ppm of ammonia to 0 trite and 0 trAte in 24 hours. Keep dosing. Once the cycle is done, your fish don't stop pooping (that is what the ammonia is simulating). You can dose ammonia until you add fish. When the 4ppm of ammonia is processed in 24 hours, then big water changes to get the nitrAtes down, then add fish (slowly).

 

[ScotJudd]

you should keep dosing up to 4ppm every couple of days. The cycle is done when you process 4ppm of ammonia to 0 trite and 0 trAte in 24 hours. Keep dosing. Once the cycle is done, your fish don't stop pooping (that is what the ammonia is simulating). You can dose ammonia until you add fish. When the 4ppm of ammonia is processed in 24 hours, then big water changes to get the nitrAtes down, then add fish (slowly).

Might be a typo but after 24 hours 4ppm of ammonia should read zero, nitrites should read zero and resulting nitrates will be high. The large water change prior to adding fish is to remove/dilute the nitrates to less than 40, ideally less than 20.


Sent from my iPhone using Aquarium Advice

 

[MarshlDillon]

Day 17 ammonia 2ppm or maybe a bit higher nitrites .50 nitrates are just a bit darker yellow than tap water. Do these pictures look accurate for api master test kit. I have second guessed myself a few times and wanted a reference of actual liquid as opposed to harder to match colors on the test. Thanks again for any responses.

 

[MarshlDillon]

Ok day 25...patience is fading. At day 21 i got to amm. 1ppm nitrite almost 1ppm. Nitrate 0ppm...just a bit darker yellow than 0- this still makes no sense as with the amount of ammonia ive processed since start should result in much more nitrite. Anyway still moving very slowly even ammonia stage. What is going wrong here? I have read that every 1ppm of ammonia processed should produce 2.7 something nitrite? Also everything seems to slow down to a crawl when i get diwn to about 1ppm ammonia. Im at a loss

 

[MarshlDillon]

Ok so now just downright frustrating. Day 54 and i have processed ammonia a few times from 3-4ppm to 0 and have gotten to 1+ppm nitrite but still no nitrate and ot takes 1-2 weeks to process ammonia. Also should there not be way more nitrite? Why is this going so dang slow? I was planning on this taking a while since i have no seasoned filter media ex. But i would have thought i should be coming to the end by now. Any advise or thoughts are greatly appreciated.

 

[threnjen]

Do you have other tests - can you test pH?
Have you ever done any water changes, or same water as start?

 

[MarshlDillon]

I use the api master test kit. Ph is 8-8.2 and has stayed there since start. I did change about 20% water change a while back but not sure when other than that just replacing water when it gets really low from evap. Using prime to treat water before putting in tank.

 

[threnjen]

OK you and that other guy are having similar issues. I'm going to hit you both with a series of questions. Answer as much as you are able, please
(edit: I see you just answered some of these so skip those)

1) What is your pH?
2) Have you ever done any water changes during the cycling process? If so, when? If so, when was the last one?
3) Did you use a water conditioner (Prime etc)
4) Is your tap water hard or soft? If you don't know, you can tell me your city and I will look up your water quality report.
5) Did you add anything else to the water besides ammonia? (fish food etc)
6) What are the specific instructions/protocol you were following to cycle?
7) What's temp of the water?

 

[MarshlDillon]

Thank threnjen for your response!
Last/and only water change was day 21. I believe i have very hard water (liquid rock) from what ive heard but not sure. I live in rural Missouri, johnson county missouri water district no.2. Good luck finding info there. i found one water report from a few years ago but tbh it just confused me trying to calculate gh or kh. I did add a tiny pinch of fish flake in the begining after reading of the possible need for phosphate or other trace min. My water temp is 84-86 deg. F. As for protocol followed i started by dosing ammonia to 3-4ppm then redosing when it got really low(.25) becuase i couldnt seem to get to 0. Just recently hit 0 fir the first time but let it sit without redosing for a bit longer this time. I have been checking levels every day(have skipped a few times) sooo tired of seeing the same colors everyday. Thanks again for your response and for any advise you may have

 

[threnjen]

Gosh I am just at a loss here. I don't mean to be ignoring you I just don't understand why the cycle would be stalled.

I would go ahead and do a 50% WC because it won't hurt anything. I'm going to keep thinking about what I am missing here.

 

[NigelK8485]

Have you actually checked your pH recently? During cycles it's not uncommon for it to drop very quickly during the nitrite to nitrate portion. Mine would be 8.2 after a water change and within 36 hours it'd be down to 6.8, I was having to do almost daily water changes in order to keep the pH up.

Make sure when testing for nitrates you go above and beyond what the instructions call for as far as shaking the solution bottle up. Don't just shake it 30 seconds or a minute or whatever, slam the hell out of that bottle for a good five to ten minutes to make sure the solidified crystals inside are well dissolved before trying to do your test. They like to form and stick to the bottom of the bottle and it'll give you an inaccurate reading if you aren't 100% sure they're dissolved and broken up.


Sent from my iPad using Aquarium Advice

 

[MarshlDillon]

No worries threnjen seems to be a stumper. And i just checked PH again still 8.2 and yeah i have been banging nitrate test on the counter to the point of getting strange looks from the wife haha. Will be going to the fish store this weekend in hopes the owner will give me some matured filter media or something (trusted store) if not i may break down and try one of the bacteria in a bottle products. I know these do not have a good reputation but at this point im willing to try about anything. Again thanks to all for the responses