so...plant problems.

[cbk.o4]

so i got some plants for my tank:

Congensis (Anubias congensis)
Balansae (Cryptocrone crispatula)
Java Fern (Microsorium pteropus)
Dwarf Sagittaria (Sagittaria subulata)
Anachris (Egeria najas)
Java Moss (Vesicularia dubyana)

i have a 48" jebo with two 21" 55w 50/50 bulbs. ive been dosing excel lightly and flourish a few times a week.

The plant that is doing the worst by far is the Anacharis (Egeria najas), it has turned a very very pale green and is wilting like crazy. i planted a few bunches the left a few floating and both are doing very poorly.. also my gourami keeps picking at them..

The Balansae (Cryptocoryne crispatula) some of the leaves have spots that have just "eroded" away for lack of a better term, some of the leaves are yellow and brown, overall not doing too bad, just some sore spots.

The Congensis (Anubias ‘Congensis’) is probably doing the best out of all out of the 5-6 leaf plant, only one leaf has a visible problem, it is rippling around the edges and turning yellow on the tip. but other than that the plant is a very healthy green.

The Java Fern (Microsorium pteropus) isnt doing at all, most of the leave on the two plants have brown spots or holes in them, and are yellowing.

The Sagittaria, Dwarf (Sagittaria subulata) is doing pretty good overall, good green color, and not drooping much at all. there is a lil yellowing but not much.

The Java Moss (Vesicularia dubyana) is java moss, its doing fine, i mean really what could go wrong with it.

So....here's my problem...im a friggin noob at plants. anybody have any ideas what is wrong? too much light? not enough light? complete wrong dosing? under dosing? over dosing? temperature?

TIA.

 

[fish_4_all]

#1, what are your tank readings, please try to answer as much from the sticky as possible. I know it seems like an annoyance but it helps a lot, I know, I was in your shoes and still have a lot to learn.

#2, I assume it is a 55 gallon, 74 watt equivelant so you have 1.35 watts per gallon, probably not enough. Switch out at least one of the bulbs with a daylight bulb if not both. With 1 daylight and one 50/50 you could still get away without adding CO2 although it would help a lot for all your plants and also your anacharis. 2 daylight bulbs and you will need CO2.

#3, I am only going from what I have been told but the Excel is probably killing your anacharis. Is not supposed to be a good thing for it.

Java Fern, not enough light and probably not enough iron although someone else would be better off attacking that one. Mine looked about the same until I got more lighting and started adding K, MG (macros) and CSM+B (micros)

I am sure if I am off base here someone will correct me.

HTH

 

[Jchillin]

I am only going from what I have been told but the Excel is probably killing your anacharis. Is not supposed to be a good thing for it.

That is correct. For some reason, excel is not very friendly to anacharis or Jungle vals.

As far as the brown/yellow, my guess would be potassium deficiency.

 

[tbonem91]

I would definitly swap one of your bulbs for s 6700 or 10k bulb to bump up the wattage a little. If you're using excel, that explains the anacharis problem - the two dont get along for some readon. The crypt "melting" is fairly normal I believe when first planting them or moving them - you can remove the dead leaves and it will grow new ones. Removing the leaf stem helps promote new growth so it isnt trying to repair the damaged leaf. Brown spots and holes are usually Iron or Potassium deficiency - I would vote K as Fe isnt needed in nearly as high of quantities and is usually replenished during water changes. You can start dosing K and see if things get better - there isnt a reliable hobby-friendly test for K but luckily enough, you cant really overdose it.

for K, you can pick up a soluble Potash from a garden center - make sure it is pure K2O and then you can dissolve some of it into water (Hobby Lobby sells nice clear empty plastic applicator bottles that work great for DIY liquid ferts) and then dose that into your tank.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

I agree with the Excel killing the anacharis. If you read their website, if you have anacharis, they only recommend smaller doses every other day.

As for the rest, I agree, iron and potassium. You can remedy the iron with PWC's more often, or small dosings. I'd also dose Potassium with your Flourish, every time. You can't really OD potassium, like mentioned above.

 

[cbk.o4]

sorry about that didnt see that sticky, ill answer all those right now to the best of my ability.

~Plant(s) affected?
Congensis (Anubias congensis)
Balansae (Cryptocrone crispatula)
Java Fern (Microsorium pteropus)
Dwarf Sagittaria (Sagittaria subulata)
Anachris (Egeria najas)

~Tank size/volume?

55g 48x12x18

~Lighting/wpg?

In right now i have two 21" actinics, two 21" 55w 50/50. Also available for use are two 65w 12000k daylights.

~Do you inject CO2? If so do you know the level?

no i dont inject CO2 at current, maybe in the near future though

~What do pH, KH, PO4, NH3 and/or NO3 test kits say?

at last testing (6-2):

pH: 7.4-7.8
Ammonia: 0 ppm
Nitrate:5-10 ppm
Phosphate: .5 ppm
Carbonate Hardness: ~20° (~358 ppm)

~Dosing? What/how much/how often?

was dosing a half cap or so of excel every other day, and a full cap of flourish every other day. Also there is a flourish root tab by every plant base.

~Heavily, moderately, or lightly planted?

i would say lightly maybe slightly moderate would be pushing it

~Fish stock? as of today only a dwarf gourami and an african dwarf frog (was going to get more last week but gourami had popeye and i was treating the tank)

~Tank Location (near windows - in direct sunlight)?

uh against the far wall of my room, when u walk in the door it is directly on the right wall. there is a HUGE window right next to it but my blinds are down almost all the time (it gets WAY too hot in here if they are open, and then tank temp skyrockets)

~How long has tank been set up?

done cycling around the 15th or so of may this year.

here are some pictures of the plants, sorry about quality.

Anachris (Egeria najas)



Balansae (Cryptocrone crispatula)





Dwarf Sagittaria (Sagittaria subulata)





Java Fern (Microsorium pteropus) (worst pic by far, but it was in the back of the tank couldnt get a good shot on it)



well there i answered them all, hope that helps.

TIA

 

[Purrbox]

I'd say that it's time to start dosing some Macros.

Definately looks like the plants are short on Potassium. I'd start dosing this immediately. Shoot for about 10-20ppm during the week. This can be split into multiple smaller doses spread throughout the week.

Since you've just finished setting up the tank and are in the process of stocking, your Nitrates and Phosphates are looking a bit low. Once your tank is fully stocked you probably won't need to dose either of these as long as you stick with the current setup. If you happen to have some on hand, you may want to dose some in the interim until your bioload can maintain sufficient levels on it's own. I'd bump Nitrates up to 10-20ppm and Phosphates up to 1ppm.

 

[cbk.o4]

so im going to need to get a potassium test kit? also if i do the dose over a week time and then do my weekly pwc doesnt that defeat the point of the dosing..


ill be addin more fish this week hopefully that will help out some.

so should i stick with the two 21" 50/50 or change one out for a 21" 65w 12000k??

 

[Lonewolfblue]

No need for a potassium kit. They are not accurate for what we need. You always start your dosing after the PWC. I dose potassium 3 times a week, then do my PWC's on Sunday. So basically I dose potassium on Sunday after the PWC, then on Tuesday, and then Thursday. Then my next dose is after the PWC on Sunday. And the dosing I do on Sunday is larger than the dosings on Tues and Thurs.

 

[Purrbox]

The weekly water change doesn't defeat the point of dosing, but rather helps to reset your water parms if you inadvertantly overdosed and also replenishes traces nutrients. The goal is to dose such that your plants have sufficient ferts for growth throughout the week.

In a lower light tank like yours you can often limit your dosing to once a week right after your water change. However in higher light tanks it's often necessary to breakup your dosing since you would be introducing dangerous levels of ferts for your fish if you were to try to dose it all at once. Rather than only breaking up the dose for certain ferts, most people find it easier to just break up their dosing for all the ferts. Some people also find it easier to dose a little bit every day so that they don't forget to dose the tank.

 

[cbk.o4]

so i need to dose potassium and iron i guess, what do i need to get?

i could pick this stuff up at like a nursery or something right?

anything specific to look for?

im going to be doing my water change tomorrow, and adding some more fish the tank also. but as of now the anacharis is completely gone, it has melted away and gone trough the filter or the fish has eaten it.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

some lfs's has the Flourish products, like Flourish Potassium and Flourish Iron. Flourish Comprehensive will give you all your micros. It's better than the Flourish Trace.

 

[cbk.o4]

oh so i can just use the floruis liquids i dont have to get dry ferts?

btw im on yahoo.

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Can do it either way....

 

[Purrbox]

Dry Ferts are more cost effective, especially long term or with larger tanks. Flourish is more expensive but easier to use since the solution is already mixed for you. Both are good options, and the choice is usually determined whether you are trying to save money or looking for something quick and easy.

Flourish Comprehensive contains iron, and there's usually no need to dose it separately. If you need more iron just dose a bit more Comprehensive.

 

[cbk.o4]

well for right now i have flourish potassium, i added 5ml to my 55g tank, prolly with alternate dosing postassium and regular flourish each day, and then excel every now and then.

how long before i should see any improvment if this was the cause of the problem in the first place?

 

[Lonewolfblue]

Check on that dosing. I'm not sure 5ml is quite enough for a 55G. Now if someone better with calculations would chime in, here's the stats for Flourish Potassium.

10ml in 60G will raise, the tank 2mg/L. Is that the same as saying 2ppm? If it is, then you would need to dose 50ml Potassium to dose 10ppm Potassium. If this is correct, then if you dose 3 times a week, then you should dose 20ml per day, 3 days a week to get approx 10ppm for the week. Let's wait to see from someone who's better with calculations give us the correct amount you should dose for the Potassium.

 

[czcz]

LWB, your math makes sense to me fwiw. mg/L is ppm. Also fwiw, I dose all my excess K once after water change, then KNO3 dosing throughout the week also adds K.

cbk.o4,

i could pick this stuff up at like a nursery or something right?

anything specific to look for?

Nurseries may have dry KNO3 as "salt peter" or "nitrate of potash," or an ACE/OSH/Home Depot/etc may have it as Grant's or Greenlight Stump Remover. JMO but I think you need at least nitrates and maybe phosphates too from the yellowing in the leaves.

Excellent thread.

 

[cbk.o4]

well i did a test last night and i swear i posted the results in here but i guess i closed the window before i hit submit.

ph: ~8.0
ammonia: 0ppm
nitritie: 0ppm
nitrate: ~5ppm
phosphate: 1-2ppm

those results were from about 18 hours after my pwc, that is the reason nitrates are so low, also i added 7 more fish to my tank yesterday, so there is now a bigger bioload on the tank, ill retest in a day or so and see what the levels are at.