Some basic questions about 5 gallon

[DragonChild]

Greetings. I'm back again.

I have a (currently empty) 5 gallon acrylic tank. It came with an undergravel filter. I was going to fill it up, plant with artifical plants more heavily than my 40 gallon (3 whole plants in that tank..whoo wee, better cut back on that foliage! ). But I was told that I should really invest in a power filter, not an undergravel filter. I was just planning on a betta alone in the tank, MAYHAP a couple of male guppies (Can I put a few males together? Will they fight? I don't want baby guppies galore.)

Anyway, I was just wondering some input. I didn't think that a fish or three small would cause so many problems, but whoever i was talking to was really insistent on a power filter.

Anyway, thanks.

 

[bunebop]

I have guppies w/ my betta, but they are not the one's w/ the long fins... I've heard if you put those in w/ bettas it's not pretty.... If you really want a filter I'd say get a wisper 10. I have one and it works really well and is pretty cheap. The guppies I have were actually rescued feeder guppies. I don't really know anything about undergravel filters, so don't take my word on this. Good luck

 

[QTOFFER]

Bettas don't like strong water current, so I would suggest an air-driven sponge filter - they're also cheap and easy to maintain.

As far as plants, stay away from plastic - your betta will shred his fins on them. Go with silk plants, or betta yet, a clump of live java moss. Java moss will grow fine under whatever light came with the tank. My bettas love hiding in it and sleeping on top of it.

I've got no experience keping bettas with guppies, but I'm not entirely sure that the betta would tolerate the presence of another long-finned, showy fish. Maybe other people can help with this one.

 

[WilliamBanik]

DC,

As QT stated, Bettas do not fair well when exposed to a fast flow rate filter. If it was me, I would stick to the undergravel filter. I have had great sucess in small setups like the one your are proposing. If I were to add anything to the tank it would be a pair of pygmy cories. That would add some bottom action as your betta will hang out near the top of the tank.

Best regards,

William

 

[dsmalls]

I haven't experienced those plastic fin-tearing plants for my betta. I have 5 plastic plants in my 10G and the little fellow sleeps in them.

I've never had any luck with UG filters as they seem fairly useless to me. As for flow, I wouldn't go super crazy with it. Mine swims just fine with my HOB 20gal filter's flow set on medium. I second the cory choice. They pretty much mind their business hanging out on the bottom.

[edit: spelling]

 

[WilliamBanik]

DS,

IMH(umble)O, be careful when offering advice on small tanks. There is a big difference between the flow rates of filters on smaller tanks. While I don't know what you have on your 10 gallon or 20 gallon, I suspect the output of either filter would blow a betta away in a 5 gallon. While you have had good sucess with your setup consider a 5 gallon tank has half the volume of the 10 tank and three/quarters the volume of your 20. Just a heads up!

Best regards,

William

 

[Hypostomus]

I've kept guppies together with bettas without issue, but in a tank of 20g.

I've also kept male guppies together in a tank as small as 10g without issue.

But these are not guarantees- you would have to experiment to determine if either your betta or guppies are going to be nippy.

 

[krap101]

you could keep the betta in a breeder net for a day and see if it tries attacking the net/wall

 

[bunebop]

I have also kept plastic plants w/ my bettas and they have all been fine with them. I haven't found a place which actually sells silk plants. My betta at the moment also has quite a bit of current :? I have bettas in my 10 and 12 gallon tanks and last night the filter (penguin 125) on the 12 gallon (which was brand new ) totally gave out on me. I had an extra penguin 170 which was not being used, so I was going to put that on there, only it was too long to fit! GRRR. I ended up having to put the wisper 10 from my 10 gallon onto the 12 gallon and put the penguin 170 onto the 10 w/ my male betta 8O I'm returning the filter today and getting a new one, but what a pain! My betta seems to be doing fairly well in the strong current... it doesn't appear to be as strong as I feared it would be. My female bettas have been in strong current since I got them and they are doing just fine. I'm assuming the male betta will just haveta get used to the strong current for now. But he has pleanty of hiding places and sleeps in the plants. I know this is prolly not the recommend method, but my bettas been alive and well for close to 4 months now, so I must be doin' alright.

Like I said before I have FEEDER guppies in w/ my bettas and they are fine. They are NOT showy fish whatsoever though. I have heard many horror stories about fancy guppies and bettas together. Since all you have is a 5 gallon I would recommend just sticking w/ the betta. At least that is what I would do. Once again, that is my opnion though.

Good luck w/ your tank!

 

[DragonChild]

gah, I knew that guppies were a bad idea, I figured the betta would like to nibble.

So, an undergravel would be alright in this case?

BTW, I have never had an actual planted aquarium, I have no idea on how to do that. Any ideas? The pet store suggested adding real plants to my 40 gallon to soften the water and make the tetras happier.

 

[krap101]

real plants dont soften water do they 8O

 

[WilliamBanik]

DC,

A Betta in a small tank like the five-gallon tank you have would be one of the few applications I would recommend an UGF. IME I have placed a Betta in a 5-gallon tank with a HOB filter. The fish did ok for a few weeks but it was obvious he struggled against the current produced by the filter. The struggle against the current eventually stressed the fish out and he developed a nasty case of ich. One muat realize that HOB's on 10 and 20-gallon tanks afford the fish dead zones where the current isn't fast. I haven't found that to be the case with a 5-gallon tank. You can always restrict the intake with a sponge or lift the intake tube but why bother when the equipment you have is quite adequate for the inhabitant of your tank. Save your money and use it on something that furthers your interest in the hobby!

Best regards,

William

 

[WilliamBanik]

KP,

Plants do have an effect on PH, more specifically the buffering capacity (KH) of the water in a tank. When tank lights are turned on (start of photoperiod) plants photosynthesize and use carbon dioxide while releasing oxygen. At the same time plants respire using up oxygen in the tank; however, photosynthesis is a faster process and has greater gas exchange. While the process is in motion the carbon dioxide levels in the tank drop as does carbonic acid. The oxygen produced through photosynthesis binds to minerals. These two dynamics cause a rise the PH/KH levels in a tank.

When the lights in a tank are turned off (end of photoperiod) the PH level of the tank should be at it’s highest. When the lights are off plants quit photosynthesizing yet still respire carbon dioxide as do the fish and bacteria in the tank. Some of the carbon dioxide produced will bind with organic material in the tank producing carbonic acid, which lowers the KH and perhaps the PH level of a tank. At the end of this photoperiod the PH/KH should be at it’s lowest.

It is highly doubtful that one will see drastic changes in PH/KH levels in a tank that doesn’t have intensive lighting and proper fertilization. If one were putting together a tank with low to moderate lighting I wouldn’t expect large swings in KH and no change in the PH level of the tank.

If you want more detailed information concerning the process google diurnal fluctuations or post to the plant section of the board, there are talented people over there.

real plants dont soften water do they 8O

Best regards,

William

 

[youronlysin]

I have a Betta in a 10 Gal tank with 8 Neon Tetra, 2 lemon Tetra and a Pleco with NO negative fish interaction at all. I also have Betta in smaller 1 gallon tanks with UGF's and I recommend keeping a VERY small amount of gravel or substrate in the tank to allow the UGF to work properly. Note, that the UGF in the small 1 gallon tank is powered by an air-stone and nothing more. I keep just enough gravel in my 1 gallon tanks to cover the plastic UGF, thats it. Any more than that and water doesn't flow properly, which is evident by the dis-coloration and smell of the water after a short time.

Instead of doing partial water changes and gravel vacs on my small 1 gallon Betta tanks, I just cup the fish, empty and completely clean the tank, gravel and refill it with water from my large established tank. I haven't had a problem with a fish yet. The Betta seem to be very hardy after living in a cup at Wal-mart for so long.

 

[dobby]

hi dragonchild - why would adding plants soften the water? thats the first time i've heard something like that - would be useful to me if it was true though! 8)

 

[krap101]

oh yeah but wouldnt it harden the water? because c02 raises lowers err raises ererr yeah lowers ph then there isnt as much c02 in the water so the ph will go up.

aka the water will get harder (gh and kh)

im not sure but that just didnt sound right plants softening water?


and i thought that plants just stop photosynthesizing when the light turn off. because that doesnt sound right. i asked my genius math teacher about that and he said that sounded crazy and i thought up another way of saying it. they stop putting out o2 but that stop taking in c02

 

[bunebop]

gah, I knew that guppies were a bad idea, I figured the betta would like to nibble.

You should be fine w/ feeder guppies, they're not as pretty, but once used to their new surrounding they are quite active. In my experience I have had a wisper 10 filter on my tank w/ my betta and it allows you to turn the flow down quite a bit so that it is not a problem w/ my betta. It does not have a biowheel... but like I said, it has worked incredibly well on my tanks.

 

[WilliamBanik]

KP,

Print out my post and take it to your math teacher, but more importantly take it to your biology teacher, and chemistry teacher, I would be most interested in hearing what they have to say?

Best regards,

William

oh yeah but wouldnt it harden the water? because c02 raises lowers err raises ererr yeah lowers ph then there isnt as much c02 in the water so the ph will go up.

aka the water will get harder (gh and kh)

im not sure but that just didnt sound right plants softening water?


and i thought that plants just stop photosynthesizing when the light turn off. because that doesnt sound right. i asked my genius math teacher about that and he said that sounded crazy and i thought up another way of saying it. they stop putting out o2 but that stop taking in c02