Some questions from a straight beginner

[pachuco2k]

Whattup folks. After surfing this site for weeks I finally joined. Last Thursday I purchased a 20 gallon tank (24x12x16), set it up, and then let it run for 48 hours. On Sunday I bought four Zebra Danios and plopped them in, after floating the bag of course. These are going to be the fish I'm going to use to cycle my tank. But as I read more and more about tanks, fish, and equipment I just have a couple of questions.
One: I bought a tank kit that came with everything I needed minus gravel, fish, a gravel vac, and decorations. The filter it came with is the Top Fin 20. I did a bunch of research beforehand and everywhere I looked people were talking about the Bio-Wheel and the Penguin Mini for a 20 gallon tank. Just how superior is this filter to the one that I am currently using. Does it have that much of an effect on the stability of my tank and will it decrease my tanks cycle time by that much?
Two: What is the best means for ensuring that the temp of new water is as close as possible to that of the existing water in my tank.
Three: Is it not enough that any new fish I buy have already been in the store I purchase them from for two weeks? I know its the safest possible thing to do but must I "quarantine" any new fish in another tank (which I don't have yet) for two weeks? If so, how should this tank be furnished?
Last One (I promise!): Is it best to wait until the cycle process completes before adding new fish? I read somewhere that I can probably add a few more fish after the second and third week. But I would rather wait until the cycle completes than have some fish die.
I think that's it for now. Its been about 15 years since I've been away from this hobby but I am really excited about my new setup. Thanks in advance for reading my long post and answering some of my questions!

 

[ferret]

You shouldn't add anymore fish for at least a week. Check the ammonia and nitrite levels daily, and when both hit 0 again, it should be good. It will spike slightly (And should). You sound like you've been doing every right, especially for a starter.

This sounds like the Petsmart starter kits, which is what my 29 gallon original was. So I'll give my opinions on it. The tank is good, the heater is good. I love their little stick on termastats. The filter will work just fine unless you overstock the tank. I wouldn't suggest many fish in this tank, unless you replace the filter, and then only a few more since its small. The biowheel's are in general to my knowledge the best 'hang on back' filters. Having this filter from the start likely won't decrease your cycle time since the biowheel's take upwards to 2 months or more to fully cultivate.

If you're refilling your tank with a bucket, I can offer you one suggestion on the temperature concern and other's might dispute (And are very welcome to, because I've been wondering as well). If you have a floating thermameter that you can put in the bucket, adjust the hot water to be slightly on and the cold water all the way on. Test the temperature until its within a few degrees of your tank (Under, not over). That'll keep it from being just purely cold water going into your tank.

My personal opinion is that most Petsmart's carry fairly good quality fish. You should always quarenteen though in the future (It didn't matter in this case, you had no previous fish), because they do occasionally have disease outbreaks. I lost a new tank of fish this way, the store was almost empty of fish the following week as well.

Hope that helps, and if any seem problems with my post, please please correct me

 

[myriam]

Howdy

Welcome to AA Pachuco2k! I think you will find this place addictive

How funny, I bought that same exact kit at PetSmart over a month ago. I asked about the filters on this forum, too, and a couple of people told me that the Top Fin 20 should be fine until it eventually conks out or something; then I should upgrade to a Penguin or Emperor. I guess what they were saying was that, although those other filters are higher-end and better because of the Bio-Wheel, it's not necessarily worth chucking your brand-new Top Fin 20 for one, especially since you already paid for it in the kit. If you do your weekly water change/gravel vac, the water conditions seem to do alright.

Did you buy a water testing kit? That is also very key in the early stages of your tank. Make sure it tests for Ni, Na, Ph, Ammonia, etc. I bought a big Martel one that had two different parts that tested for everything. I made an Excel spreadsheet and tracked the numbers, and did a lot of misc extra things until the water parameters got to where they should be.

I would also add an air-pump and an airwand/stone, if you haven't already--it made a huge difference for my tank.

You are totally right in just getting a few fish to start until your tank is cycled. The bozo at PetSmart told me to set up my tank, wait 48 hrs, and then it would be okay to get about 10 fish....WRONG! I had 2 catfish die within days, although the platies and mollies stayed okay. The sudden ammonia spike I'm sure was the cause. Then a few of the fish started getting ick, and I did the high temps right away (as advised here), but that wasn't going fast enough and so I kind of cheated and got Rid-Ich, and that along with the high temps got rid of the ick for good.

For my water changes/gravel vacs, I splurged on a Python No Spill. When I use this--which I do each Sunday night--I suck out 20-25% of the water right into the sink. Then I test the water coming out of the sink, to about the same "feel" as the tank water that my hand has just been submerged in. Then when it feels about right, I go ahead and refill the tank, then add the right amount of dechlorinator. So far, so good.

I unfortunately do not yet have a quarantine tank, but I'm also not going to get any new fish for awhile. Most everyone here feels that a QT is quite necessary to keep your tank and your fish healthy, so if you have the resources, go for it.

Good luck with your fish! This is an excellent forum, as you will see. HTH.

 

[amazonwoman]

myriam-you said that an airpump did wonders for your tank-what do you mean exactly?

 

[myriam]

amazonwoman,

I added the air pump when I was treating my tank for ich, and I had the temps up to 87-88. I guess at this high a temp, there is less oxygen at the bottom part of the tank and there needs to be more agitation to get the oxygen going. This agitation can be achieved either by the spillage from the filter or by use of an airstone.

I also noticed the water quality got a little better after I added the air pump. Could have been just a coincidence, I guess.

Besides, my fish seem to enjoy the bubbles and play in them all the time!

 

[pachuco2k]

Thanks so far for your responses. With the fish I have in there right now and the dimensions of my tank I figure that I have about 22 total fish inches. I've seen several formulas but all of them come to either 20 or 24 so I'm going with the happy medium. Does 22 fish inches sound about right for my tank or would that be considered overstocking? That's something I definitely want to avoid. Thanks for the op on the Top Fin. I actually tried to do a bogus return and exchange for the Penguin Mini and it didn't work out. LOL! Its cool though. It sounds like as long as I monitor my tank on a daily basis for awhile I should be OK.
Myriam, yes I am an Excel nerd too and am not afraid to admit it. I got one of those freshwater master test kits and the first thing I did was pop up the ol' Excel and create a log sheet till the end of the year with graphs and all! What a chump I am. So I will be monitoring my tanks Ammonia and Nitrate regularly for however long it takes this cycle to complete. Anyhow, I currently have two air stones going. One in the far left away corner and the other smack dab in the middle in the form the Roman Coliseum. Somewhere I read something about aeration in a tank which is why I went that route. I saw one of those Pythons and I am sold. I figure I have a week until I need to do my first change so that means come Friday Payday I will have one of those too.
Your answers so far have been a great help. Thanks!

 

[ferret]

Just remember, the inch rule applies to full grown length, not length at time of prucahse

 

[myriam]

Pachuco2k you were way ahead of me when you bought your tank--I had no clue about aeration before!

If you can swing this you might be able to get a deal on the Python...I looked up PetSmart's online price for it, and it was like $25.99 for the 25' one. But their price at the store is $39.99. I called the manager at the one near me, and asked about that, and she said if I printed out the page from the website and brought it in, they'd give it to me for that price...and they DID! I don't know if all PetSmarts do this, but if you can get it done you'll save a nice chunk of dough. Make sure you get the person's name on the phone and all that, too.

 

[pachuco2k]

I definitely am counting their full grown length. That reminds me of another question. When I bought my Zebras the PetSmart label said they grow to 4 inches I think. When I did my initial research everyone seemed to agree that their max size was no more than 1 3/4 inches. Who is right?

 

[myriam]

Have a look here:

http://www.fishprofiles.com/profiles/fw/profile.asp?id=Danio+rerio
http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=21&pCatId=941

 

[Allivymar]

Actually, forget the whole 1" = 1g rule. Its really an old wives tale type of rule. It doesn't take into account amount of waste the fish produce, the amount of space needed and temperament. For example, 10 inches of neon tetra works great in a 10g tank. But you wouldn't put a 10 in oscar in that same 10g. Goldfish and angelfish both require about 10g each! Best thing to do is to research the fish you'd like, and ask questions. This way you'll know if they are compatible and will work nicely in your 20g.

Also, a QT is a must IMHO. Just because a fish looks good in the lfs for a couple of weeks does not mean its healthy. The stress of moving tanks may be enough for disease to appear if it has been subclinical till then. Its better to QT new fish for at least 2 weeks (more is better) to be sure you're not going to infect your entire tank.

When I add new water, I admit I match temps by simply feeling the water and making sure it feels the same. Some folks take it further and use a thermometer to match temps.

 

[pachuco2k]

Too much variation on the sizes for these danios. I'll just have to monitor their growth myself. Anyhow, right on for the tip on the Python. I think it was already 30 bucks at PetSmart but I'll have to check again. Thanks all for the answers! Good luck on your own fishes!

 

[pachuco2k]

Allivymar, what's a good setup for a QT then? Can I just get like a fishbowl or should I get like a small tank and then set it up under similar conditions minus the gravel and decor?

 

[Allivymar]

I use a 10g tank for QT. I use a filter, heater, aerator, and some plastic plants and a ceramic log for the fish who need a place to hide. No substrate, no live plants etc. Nice thing about it is when I'm not using it I put it away. Then I don't have to look at an empty tank LOL

Some folks keep some extra filter media in their main tank to use in the QT. Personally I don't bother; if I wind up having to medicate it will kill the nitrifying bacteria anyway. I usually keep some Bio-Spira around if I'm going to be buying fish and use that. Or you can simply do regular daily water changes to keep the ammonia levels down (the QT prob won't be in use long enough to fully cycle).

 

[pachuco2k]

Thanks for the advice! Now to get out of the slavehouse and go back home!!!

 

[ferret]

I believe the zebra danio's do reach 4 inches. Its the long finned variety that is smaller.

 

[Kinketsu]

For what it's worth, I too recently bought one of the TopFin kits. When I realized I couldn't do some of the things with the filter that I read folks were doing (custom media arrangements), I went back to the store and asked if they'd give me a credit on the TopFin filter towards a better filter. To my surprise, they said "no problem".

FWIW, I bought and have become a fan of AquaClear. The reasons why are explained far more eloquently than I could do on the following page:

http://madhunag.tripod.com/powerfilterperformance.html

(I don't think I agree with everything this author says on all of his pages, but I have a lot less experience than he does, and by and large the site seems very good.)

Kinketsu