Still not better! Dying?

[Sarah E]

Erne, my Betta male is still not better. It's been 9 days, (maybe a couple more when he was in his big tank). I treated him for Nitrate burns with my Bettafix, and those are all gone! He's eating wonderfully, but he doesn't swim like he used to. His color is fading and he's very skinny... and yet his scales look lifted a little bit, not much. I don't think it's Dropsy(though I worry I might be wrong) because with dropsy they are bloated.....

I don't know what to do. I have him, right now in a betta tank, which is 2.5 gallons, with a small heater and filter. I'm going to go take water tests.

 

[LyndaB]

Readings are very important and might answer some questions.

 

[Sarah E]

Okay, i checked my water and that was the problem. *sigh* I'm used to the huge tanks that I change water on two times a week, not the small tanks. My first readings were:

PH=7.2-7.6, closer to 7.6
Ammonia= 2.0
Nitrite=2.0
Nitrate= 0-5.0, closer to 5.0

After the first 50% water change:

Ammonia= 0.25-0.50, closer to 0.25
Nitrite= 0.50
Nitrate- 0-5.0, closer to 5.0

After the second 50% water change:

Ammonia= 0.25-0.50, closer to 0.25
Nitrite=0.25
Nitrate=0-5.0, closer to 0.

After the first water change he swam around a little bit then rested. After the second water change he swam around for half a minute before resting. It's scary how water conditions can harm them!

 

[blert]

Glad things are looking up.
You are going to want to keep a close eye on those toxin levels and you will probably be doing large water changes every day until the ammonia and nitrites stay at zero.

 

[LyndaB]

Were these tanks cycled before you started having issues?

What is your regular water change schedule? It's very true that it's harder to keep safe water params with a small tank and I'm concerned with the 2.5.

 

[Sarah E]

My main tanks, the 5 gallon, 10 gallon and 20 gallon (he was removed from the 20 gallon when he started getting sick) were cycled, and all my fish are healthy and happy(finally! YAY!) the 2.5 gallon, which I'm using as a hospital tank until he's healthy enough to go back to the 20 gallon was not cycled. However, I used all water from the tank he came from. I took 2.5 gallons from the 20 gallon tank, and put it in that tank. I treated him for Nitrite burns, which got better, but he is still lethargic.

For my main tanks I do a 50%(ish) water change two times a week. For the new 2.5 gallon, I was using the Bettafix, which says to medicate for 7 days, then do a waterchange, which I did. Then I went 2 days without doing a water change. *sigh*

I'm trying to figure out, when I can move him back to my 20 gallon because I have other, happy, healthy fish, including a female betta in there that I don't want harming him/him harming.

 

[LyndaB]

Ok, now we've got a bigger problem. You put him into an uncycled tank. It does not matter that you took other tank water and put it in there. He needs an established tank.

Also, another problem. You cannot keep him with a female betta constantly. The males and females should only be placed together when actively spawning. They will most likely kill each other in that 20 gallon.

Two days without a water change in a cycled tank would not shoot up your nitrates.

 

[Sarah E]

Oh boy.... fun fun fun.... well... let's see.... Option 1:

Would keeping him in the tank he is in, harm him?

Option 2:
I have a 5 gallon, nursery tank that is full of Feeder Guppies... I have probably... around 10 full grown males/females in it... I could move them to my 10 gallon, with my two fancy male guppies and female (I have 3 feeder guppies in there already) and worry about the over-stalking problems there.... This tank has been running for... I believe a month or so now, and the guppies are happy as can be. I could move him to the 5 gallon tank once all the guppies are in the 10 gallon...

Option 3, but sounds dangerous:
Move him to the 20 Gallon tank, and leave the female in there for there are some nice hiding spots for her... however, I'd much rather leave her in there, and also have him in there constantly.... because she loves the attention of the other snails+fish, following them around and nudging them.

However, while he's getting better... I could possibly move the feeders to the 10 gallon and move her to the 5 gallon, or put her in the 10 gallon with the fancy guppies.. but I'm worried they would hurt each other...

Any suggestions?

 

[LyndaB]

I have a suggestion..... just buy another 10 gallon tank for your betta.

What are you going to do with all the feeder guppies you'll end up with?

 

[LyndaB]

Would keeping him in the tank he is in, harm him?

You took a sick fish and put him in an uncycled tank..... yes, this will harm him. He's already stressed and his immune system is compromised. He needs to be in a safe environment, not a toxic one, if you want him to survive.

 

[Sarah E]

*laughs* I have enough tanks right now... plus, that wouldn't help me much with the cycled/non-cycled tank... *sighs* I suppose...I'll put him in the 5 gallon tank... and put the feeders into.... I guess I'll put them..... in.... *ponders* I have a 60 gallon, brand new tank (There's no substrate yet, sadly, and I added bacterial supplements) could I put the feeders into my 60 gallon for now? Or should I just put him in with the fancy guppies? I'm worried about having to many fish in there, as I have some nice babies, who won't stay in the breeders net... and I don't quite want them eaten....

I'm going to be feeding the Feeder Guppies (once they start breeding! I wonder if my water isn't warm enough for them.... hmm....)

I could put the feeder guppies into my 20 gallon... the only thing is, they're really hard to catch once they're in there... I'd much rather put them in the 10 gallon with the others(though I'd hate to lose the babies) or put them in the 60 gallon.... though it isn't cycled.... It's been up and running for 3 days, 2 with a filter....

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Another option that may work is take a good chunk of media (1/4 should do it) from the filter in the 20 and put it in the 2.5 filter. Then watch for mini cycles in both tanks. Not ideal but you have to work with what you got.

 

[Sarah E]

Sadly, my 20 gallon doesn't have media, it's a simple hang-on the side of the tank filter that came with it....

 

[Mumma.of.two]

??? Confused! So no sponge, floss or bio media?

 

[Sarah E]

Nope. Just the regular, slip in carbon filter... the kind that you get with the kits that you buy of like 20 gallon tanks at Petsmart/Petco. However... I have a sponge that I put over the top of the intake nozel in my 20 Gallon.... but... the filter I have for the 2.5 wouldn't work. This is the 2.5 Gallon filter-

 

[LyndaB]

There's a bio-bag with dual sided mesh inside that filter, that is your media. You also have carbon in there.

 

[Sarah E]

Oh? So how would I move media from my big filters to the small one? Do I rip it up? *blinks* I moves him to the 5 gallon tank yesterday after doing a water-change for it and moving some other fish around.

 

[Sarah E]

Well... I'm sad to say it's all over. The battle was lost. The Lord has called my beloved Erne home. I'm thankful that 1. He's no longer suffering, and 2. that I had the time I did with him.

Now, I have another question. I have my 2.5 gallon cycling. And the 5 gallon that I had had him in, is still up and running. I'm wanting to find another little male Betta... for I miss my guy, and miss the adorable personalities of the betta.

I'm going to keep cycling the 2.5 gallon for another fish. But I'm wondering. For both of them, since I had this sick fish (I'm still not sure what he was sick with, other than at one point Nitrite burns) do I need to do any water tests/treatments before I would add another male betta to my 5 gallon?

 

[LyndaB]

I'm sorry you lost him.

You need to do tests to be sure the tanks are cycled. I'm not sure what you would put into the 2.5 gallon, but it's really not large enough for much.

Are you in CT by chance? I see you're in New England.

 

[Sarah E]

I'm up in NH. I'll check out the tank levels. I was thinking of a single betta male... would that be to small for that?