Tap water vs RO water

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katas

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Joined
Jan 1, 2015
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31
Location
Connecticut
So doing my due-diligence prior to setting the hi tech planted tank up. Water changes on a 65 gallon Looks to be about 32-33 gallon change weekly as I will be EI dosing.

I do not have my current readings on my city tap water. However with that being said what is the converging opinion, city tap and decloranaotion or RO water with mineralization?


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Side note: Amano and Crystal shrimp will be kept in the tank.


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With CRS in the tank, I'd say remineralized RO. At the very least, a 50/50 with the tap. But I'd get a TDS meter and check the tap before making decisions.
 
Also check if your city uses chloramines. I just installed an RO system I purchased from Buckeye Hydro and it brought my TDS from 274 to 7. I used a handheld meter.

My blackberry shrimp seem to be more active than they were with tap water and prime. Besides that you'll get to make your own drinking water. Definitely go RO.

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I use tap in my tanks(3 w/shrimp-1 w/crs)..the crs are actively breeding with no issues..I also use a water storage barrel which I filter,heat&oxygenated...barrel sits for 24hrs before I begin to use for wc's,my tap comes out at 8.2 ph before use has dropped between 7.2-7.4 ph..barrel is cleaned weekly including rinsing out sponge filter,filter floss&activated carbon..You wouldn't believe the crap that gets caught in the filters...

Getcha sleeves wet fish tank people!
 
Keep in mind what works for me may not work for others,I religiously do 50% wc's weekly on all my tanks so all my parameters stay constant...Getcha sleeves wet fish tank people!
 
Thanks for the quick replies as always. I am certainly going to invest in one with the advice given plus over all cost. However I am going to grab a TDS meter anyways so I am going to collect/post the water results a little later for knowledge purposes.


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Also check if your city uses chloramines.

IMO chloramines aren't a huge factor in deciding whether or not to use RO, since most dechlorinating products on the market will remove chlorine and chloramines.

To the OP, definitely check your tap water. I know several people who are blessed with pretty soft, acidic tap water which is perfect for shrimp - if you happen to fall into that category, there's not much of a point in buying a RO/DI system. If you're like me, on the other hand, with very hard, basic, nasty tap water, a RO/DI system is worth every penny. :D
 
And if you decide you need one, do your homework and get one with a bit more capacity than you think you need, unless you are going to set up a permanent storage for the water.

What I do is make water when I need a water change, and I always want it to be just a bit faster than it is.

Also consider into what you will make it -- will you need an overflow-shutoff, or will it be fast enough you will just watch it (the latter is a better solution if when it inevitably overflows it is outside or elsewhere that won't hurt floors).

If you get RODI you will need to mix the water with various stuff before adding it to the tank - so you may want storage and a mixing spot separate, or use the storage to mix. For example, a 30g rubermaid trashcan on a dolly could accumulate the water from the RODI, then mix in chemicals as needed, then you could role the whole thing (if you have flat, hard floors, maybe not carpet) to the aquarium and use a pond pump to fill the tank. On the other hand if you are going to have to carry buckets, you need a way to fill them from your storage.

Finally consider temperature - with any volume of water changed, you need the new water at a matching temperature. One of the easiests ways, if your water is normally too cold, is buy one spare heater and put it in the storage tank while it fills (well, once it is under water). A pond pump is handy there to keep the storage circulated while heating, and while mixing in chemicals.

Basically I'm suggesting you walk through the whole process before buying anything. I ended up replacing a lot of the stuff I bought as it was too short, or too small, or ...
 
Linwood - Thanks for the well thought out response. I have been getting extremely detailed in the processes as you noted. I did fail to think of the heater within the 30g barrel which is a good call! I already had the pond pump in mind for the ease of WC's which was also a good idea.

Attempting to find a local store that sells 30 gallon drums that are food grade safe is proving to be difficult. I have found several on Craigslist that were used for food that can be cleaned. Assuming I can clean it well enough do you think it would be safe to go that route? The shrimp I will be adding will most certainly not be until the 3rd month marker so I would imagine any TDS would be next to nothing at that point if any residue from the cleaning of the barrel.

Let me know your thoughts!
 
Rubermaid Brute 30 or 44 gallon trash can from Home Depot. Not as cheap as you might find on Craigslist, but easy to get.

I bought a used 55g plastic drum that was supposedly food safe, and made a mess -- it leached something out that sent both my tanks into a cycle. LOTS of people get these reusable plastic drums, but see if you can find someone who can give you its provenance. I'm now much more paranoid about where things have been.

I have only had the rubbermaids a few days -- but I tried two things, I put potassium permanganate in them and it didn't react for many hours (a good sign for meaning no organics, plus it sterilizes the surface), I then put 0 TDS water in one for a couple days and it still measured 0 TDS, so it didn't leach anything that conducts.

I would be a bit more concerned about getting something food safe (which is largely an indication it is intended never, ever to leach) if I was storing water continually, but I generally make water, use it, and the container sits empty most of the time.
 
By the way -- if you need 30 gallons at a time, get the 44 gallon if you plan to wheel it around, less likely to spill if not full to the top. Sadly it's about 50% more $.
 
The brands of RODI systems I am looking into is Buckeye, Spectrapure, and BRS. Any advice on the brand or specific model in question?

I know the more membrane canisters the faster the water process. Also know one with a pressure gauge and flush is key. Also key to have spare filters on hand for that rare but highly possible "oh sh!+" moment. Is there anything else I should look for?
 
I use tap in my tanks(3 w/shrimp-1 w/crs)..the crs are actively breeding with no issues..I also use a water storage barrel which I filter,heat&oxygenated...barrel sits for 24hrs before I begin to use for wc's,my tap comes out at 8.2 ph before use has dropped between 7.2-7.4 ph..barrel is cleaned weekly including rinsing out sponge filter,filter floss&activated carbon..You wouldn't believe the crap that gets caught in the filters...

Getcha sleeves wet fish tank people!

The crap you speak of is just stuff that comes out of your tap water?
 
Yeah,I'll post pics of the cleanup after next round of wc's

Getcha sleeves wet fish tank people!
 
Thanks for the future pictures.

So far the plan of action items I have so far is (assuming the TDS are horrible after the meter arrives):

Aqueon water changer (for removal of water)
Brute Rubbermaid 44g
Pond pump 80gph
New clear hose to not cross contaminate for adding water
Aqueon submersible aquarium heater 300w
Seachem's Equilibrium 4kg (should last a little over 2 years if my math servers correctly)
TDS water meter
RO DI system - unknown currently which model and options
Float valve cause well I don't want to flood the apartment.

Think I covered everything I am reading up on. However sure I may have overlooked something.
 
I'm by no means an expert so hopefully others will chime in, but here's what I think I know:

Spectrapure is generally good but pretty pricey. I buy their media, but didn't buy their units. BRS is well known as well as a good alternative (the no-name one I bought looks identical to their units).

I've never seen units with multiple membranes, though I suppose they exist. Usually they add additional pre-filters so as to get more gallons generally, but also cleaner water into the membrane so it lasts longer. The problem with that is membranes are not all that expensive, so whether the additional filter to place (and canister to buy) is worth it depends a lot on how bad your input water is. I've also heard that if you have chloramines (vs sodium hypochlorite) having more carbon blocks is better, and there are some chloramine-specific blocks as well, and some I think have membranes that are better with them. I didn't investigate that as I don't have chloramines.

Some units have multiple DI resin containers. That lets them last longer but I do not think it actually changes the recurring costs, as my impression is that DI resin converts so many gallons regardless (well, gallons at a specific input TDS).

You definitely want a unit that has a refillable (not just replaceable) DI media. I buy about 5L at a time from Spectrapure, and refill mine when I start seeing something other than zero TDS coming out.

You want to replace the prefilters when they no longer remove all the chlorine (and/or other stuff), OR when the pressure drop across it gets too large, OR (most people say) every 6 months. The latter seems a catch all as it's definitely a function of how much water you run through it, but I haven't found any good way to tell other than 6 months. I keep thinking of getting a chlorine test kit to see if what comes out of the prefilters is leaving chlorine in (chlorine kills RO membranes).

It is worth noting that RO water (without a DI stage) is awfully clean, usually in the 10-20 TDS or maybe better. There's probably no real need for the DI stage in freshwater at all. The RO membrane is going to remove 90-99% of most "stuff" in the water. I use one so I don't have to worry what the remaining 10 TDS is, but that's probably compulsive behavior rather than necessary.

I put a pressure guage at the input, and between the final pre-filter and membrane, so I could see if the filters were clogged. I've never gotten close to "clogged", the worst drop (when flushing) is about 5 psi for me and that's with 0.5u filters. So I'm not sure how important that is. It is important to know you have pretty high pressure; if your pressure is low (say 40psi, or maybe a bit more) or lower you might want a boost pump or your production rate will be quite low.

I elected NOT to go with the built in TDS meters. The handheld units are more accurate (they temperature adjust but most built in do not). What i did was put valves between the RO output and the DI input so I could get RO-only water out. That's useful not (just) for getting RO water, but after flushing or when starting up, I run the RO-only water for a bit until the TDS falls. When the pressure changes, RO membranes often back-up (in a sense) and get polluted water on the wrong side of the membrane, so the first quart or few that comes out is relatively high TDS. So each time I start up I close the DI output, open the RO-only output, and let a quart or so run off, checking the TDS with the meter. It starts about mid-30's, but quickly drops to low teens. When it reaches low teens I close that valve, and open the DI valve to let the water flow to the DI media. If you think about it -- 30 TDS water is going to consume your DI media three times as quick as 10 TDS (at least to a gross approximation).

I hear lots of differing opinions on flushing but I believe in it and do it each time when shutting down (briefly), starting up (longer), or once every 24 hours. I have no idea if that's a reasonable schedule, I just made it up to have some process.

I use non-color-indicating DI media because I have heard it lasts longer, and I don't worry if a few hours of exhausted DI media lets a few gallons of 10TDS water mix in. Not a big deal to me.

The media that came with mine lasted probably a third as long as the much more expensive DI media that came from Spectrapure - there is a difference (but there's quite a difference in price also; I'm not certain whether the cost per gallon works out, but I like changing it less so use Spectrapure).

Don't buy membranes too much in advance, they do not age well. Prefilters can be kept on hand. DI bulk media can be kept on hand also but it also has a life limit (I think they say 6 months or a year or so), so do not buy a LOT more than you need, but do keep some on hand (if you want DI at all).

The gallons per day is primarily determined by the membrane. The same physical unit can often double in volume with a new membrane, if you have adequate pressure. Unless of course it's already at maximum. Often you can tell by looking at the replacement parts.

Some flow restrictors are not very accurate. I got a 4:1 one for mine, and it was way off. I ended up using a valve and guessing (with occasionally measuring time to fill a cup with water from the waste and output). It's important to get at least the membrane's waste flow rate, e.g. if it needs 3:1 you need AT LEAST 3:1, having less won't properly remove the waste and limit its life and/or efficiency. Having too much waste water (up to a point) is just wasteful, not harmful. I like Spectrapure's concept where they can be adjusted by cutting a tube, but I didn't get any of those. At least I think ti was theirs.

Store the membrane soaked in water, which means when I shut down I leave the whole unit full of water, which makes it pretty heavy (I have a 5 stage). So if you plan to put it away somewhere be aware it's both heavy and might drip a bit.

That's about all I can think of off hand.
 
Come over to rural Kansas :D We're rocking a GH and KH of 15, 8.4 ph, 40 ppm nitrate, 1 ppm nitrite, 780 TDS......Yee haw!


My lord! 40ppm nitrate. I don't think that's safe for people to drink! My city water is at 5-10ppm nitrate and 8.0ph. I thought that was bad. :(


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