The good, the bad and the ugly of being new

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kjwcpm

Aquarium Advice Regular
Joined
Jul 4, 2011
Messages
67
Hi all. I set up an opening thread but figured it's time to place things here. For those who didn't read the other thread, I'll recap where I'm at.

My initial purchase took place at a local Wal-mart (the bad). Like a large number of customers, I bought my first items blind. They really should have giant signs in every store saying visit AA before purchasing any item first, but I digress.

So the initial setup went as follows:

Tetra 10 gallon starter kit - tank, HOB filter, lid with light.
Tetra Submersible Heater
1 bag each of red and black gravel

(3) black fin sharks
(2) dwarf pink gouramis
(2) CAE's (labeled by Wal-mart as SAE's)

So like most uneducated folk, it all came home and went into immediate set up mode. We have well water running through a system wide softener. Tank was opened, set up and filled. Fish were floated for temp adjustment once the heater stopped cycling to establish even temp, then added to the tank.

So this story starts with the really ugly. All three black fins died within 48 hours. One of the pink gouramis didn't survive. So I had one pink gourami and the two CAE's.

Did some reading, but unfortunately not here. Other sites popped up on Google first. And of course I didn't know the right questions to ask to get the right answers. So I turned around and added two GSPs along with aquarium salt (1 tbsp for the 10 gallon tank). I also boiled some rocks from the yard for decoration and bacteria purposes. I did a 50% PWC, added some Jungle Start Right and hoped I was doing things better. Yup, more ugly. Lost one of the GSPs within 48 hours.

Finally, I discovered AA. Way too late, and folks I'm truly sorry for that. I do care about the outcome of these critters, and have a strong connection to the aquatic world emotionally. So what does one do when they have a single uncycled tank, a spouse who thinks you're nuts for even starting this effort and putting any money into it, and four remaining live fish to try to deal with? He asks questions here, he listens, and he takes step by step efforts to make right what he made wrong. (the good)

So first, I bought an API Master Kit to monitor the water the right way (the good). I've found a home for the CAE's (who are already starting to show signs of aggressiveness) and they will be moving to a more appropriate place this afternoon (the good). This leaves me with the pink gourami and the GSP. For now, I'm going to try to help them through frequent PWCs, moving at least 25% each time. I'm going to stop the aquarium salt unless needed for injury or illness. And I'll let the tank run a fish in cycle, doing my best to keep the environment safe for the two remaining friends until the cycle completes.

Frequent water testing, frequent PWCs and let the bio filter build it's strength. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I'm going to try to make it until the holidays. At that point, I should be able to get at least a 30g tank for the GSP and run it through a fishless cycle first. I can then move the GSP to a better long term environment, and flip the 10g into a true community tank with some suggestions already provided (neon tetras, african dwarf frogs and ottos to join the single gourami). By that point I will also have read a ton more here and learned my lessons.

Of course, if you wise folk here have additional suggestions I'm all ears! Again, thanks for your patience with me as I learn how to handle things the right way.
 
Yes the AA sign should be mandatoryvand every spot where fish are sold, but that would make them earn less money. So they are not inclined to put them up. Lol.

Seems like you are on track now, keep up with water changes, test the water twice a day and best of luck. There are very good fish in and fishless cycle articles here. Give them a read to prepare yourself for what is still to come. Welcome to AA and the hobby, you will love it here!
 
Day 4 in the transition from cruel to kind fish owner...

CAE's are off to their new home. At the suggestion of a very trusted member here, I'm working on looking for a new home for the GSP as well. I'm going to keep the dwarf gourami and try a fish in cycling. The tank is in my home office in my basement, so with the use of a siphon vac and handy bucket, PWC's aren't difficult at all.

Latest readings using the API Master Kit were:

Ph - 7.6
Am - 0
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0

Did a 60% PWC to clean things up. Right now both fish still seem happy and safe. Though the sooner I can move the GSP the better.

Clearly, a long way to go in the cycling process. But it's easy to keep a close eye on things.

Currently using Jungle's Start Right conditioner (we have tap water through a softener here). But will likely switch to Seachem Prime as soon as I can get some from the LFS. Start Right removes the heavy metals and chlorine, but does nothing to control Ammonia and Nitrites.

Slowly turning the ship around, one step at a time....
 
You're doing great so far. It's good to see someone who is willing to take advice and do the right thing for their fish :)

We'll all be happy to help along the way.
 
Day 5 in the transition from cruel to kind fish owner...

Latest readings using the API Master Kit were:

Ph - 7.6
Am - 4
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0

So the good news is Am showed up. Bad news is no NO2 yet - there's a ways to go. Did a 70% PWC to clean things up. Fish still seem happy and safe.

Bought Seachem Prime at the local PetSmart last night and used it for the first time this morning. Hopefully that will ease the burden a bit.

A side note here - we tend to bash the chain stores a lot, but the person I worked with at PetSmart was really good. Made sure I knew what I was doing with cycling, not overstocking, etc. Talked a kid out of a goldfish and bowl setup by showing her the aduly fish and how big they got. Even showed her an upside down one (where it ingested too much air eating and flipped) to show her the challenges of caring for them. Not sure how the sale turned out. But it was great to see someone who knew what they were doing.

She told me PetSmart mandates roughly 40 hours of training, and fish are a big part of it. Then, they have to test out on their knowledge before they can hit the store floor. It may not be a perfect system, but it's way better than Wal-mart would ever do!

Still trying to sort out a home for the GSP. Nothing local is happening the way it did for the CAE's (maybe the brackish limitations). I'd try classifieds but I don't know the transportation logistics process. I'd worry about improper delivery of the GSP and damaging it in the process. As with everything else here, I'm open to suggestions.

So the march toward a healthy tank presses on....
 
Remember, your goal for ammonia is below .25. If it at was 4ppm and you did a 70% pwc, you've got some more water changes to do.
 
Thanks eco. Just for clarification, the ammonia reading was prior to the PWC. I'm doing a minimum of daily PWC's (probably around the 70% level until the ammonia and NO2 readings seem safer), and may do two in a day if it stays crazy high in one category.

The 4ppm was taken on 24 hour old water and prior to adding Seachem Prime to the mix.
 
kjwcpm said:
Thanks eco. Just for clarification, the ammonia reading was prior to the PWC. I'm doing a minimum of daily PWC's (probably around the 70% level until the ammonia and NO2 readings seem safer), and may do two in a day if it stays crazy high in one category.

The 4ppm was taken on 24 hour old water and prior to adding Seachem Prime to the mix.

The Prime will help temporarily detoxify the ammo and no2, but I've never seen research on how much it takes to neutralize different levels. I'd be safe and keep the levels under .25 without relying on the Prime to neutralize anything over that.

There's no such thing as too many pwc's in a cycling tank with fish. Don't hesitate to do back to back 75% water changes if that's what it takes to get the levels down.

If it really jumped up to 4 that quickly, you're going to get familiar with your bucket really fast. At this rate, multiple pwc's per day look like they might be required. As soon as you can re-home the GSP...it will help reduce the bio-load. You're just going to need to be ready to carry a LOT of water in the mean time.
 
Got it. The good news is the exit to carry the bucket is just feet from my office door....not too many steps away :)
 
Day 6 in the transition from cruel to kind fish owner...

Latest readings using the API Master Kit were:

Ph - 7.6
Am - 4
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0

Thorough siphon vacuum getting as much out of the gravel as I could. 60% PWC replaced with Seachem Prime treated tap water.

All fish still showing as healthy....the journey continues....
 
kjwcpm said:
Day 6 in the transition from cruel to kind fish owner...

Latest readings using the API Master Kit were:

Ph - 7.6
Am - 4
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0

Thorough siphon vacuum getting as much out of the gravel as I could. 60% PWC replaced with Seachem Prime treated tap water.

All fish still showing as healthy....the journey continues....

Wow, wow, wow...if the 4 for ammonia is accurate...immediate and massive pwc's are needed ASAP. Personally I'd do back to back 75%, test and see if you need more to get it below .25.

You've got to get some fish out of there if it's climbing that high that quickly...ASAP.
 
I agree, do several large water changes until the ammonia reading comes down.


Also, a standard dose per directions of Prime temporary detoxifies 1mg/l of ammonia (1ppm). I don't know if that counts for just free ammonia (NH3) or ammonium (NH+4), but since it converts NH3 to NH+4, I would think it only applies to NH3.

The pink gouramis at walmart are kissing gouramis, which get really really large, so I'd consider rehoming it as well. I saw that you had lost one, I wasn't sure if the other was still alive.
 
I know folks, I know. Doing another 70% PWC tonight and rechecking. Also checking with a few LFS's on a way to find a safe home for the remaining fish, then continue with a fishless cycle if possible.
 
Next phase in the process. Back to back PWC's get the level < .25 ammonia. Found a new home for the gourami (a nice 150 gallon tank in town). Hoping the LFS will have an option for the GSP on Monday. At least the bio load is lower now than when the weekend started.

Still trying folks. And the cycling continues.
 
Looks like dropping the gourami made a huge difference. That combined with a 75% PWC got the ammonia back under .25.

Now just hoping to hear from the LFS today about the GSP.
 
Ok - next update and a question...

Latest readings - overnight:

Ph - 7.6
Ammonia - 1
No2 - 0
No3 - 0

I may have a home finally for the GSP. Should know before the end of the day. Then I can flip to fishless cycling.

The ammonia drops to < .25 after a 60% PWC consistently. So I can keep things safe for the meantime.

Now the question. How long should it be before NO2 starts to show up? Do I need to add CC to help the process along at all?

Also, since the Ammonia creeps up overnight, would adding plants help from that process?
 
kjwcpm said:
Ok - next update and a question...

Latest readings - overnight:

Ph - 7.6
Ammonia - 1
No2 - 0
No3 - 0

I may have a home finally for the GSP. Should know before the end of the day. Then I can flip to fishless cycling.

The ammonia drops to < .25 after a 60% PWC consistently. So I can keep things safe for the meantime.

Now the question. How long should it be before NO2 starts to show up? Do I need to add CC to help the process along at all?

Also, since the Ammonia creeps up overnight, would adding plants help from that process?

Good questions! You're doing everything well so far :). As you've learned, water changes are key. When no2 shows up is different for everyone, a full fish-in cycle can take months, fishless is almost always faster. You won't need CC unless you see dramatic fluctuations in pH, as long as you're not dipping down into the 6's, you'll be fine. Fast growing plants can be a huge help, but you'd need a good amount of them to make a noticeable impact with the way your ammo is rising. Feel free to add them (we all usually end up with planted tanks anyway), but don't expect them to be a solution. I'd keep doing the water changes you have been, and dose Prime at 2x the normal dosage to buy your fish some time between pwc's. Doing great so far...keep is posted :)
 
Thanks eco. One more question - if I do get the GSP a new home today, do I start the fishless cycling per your instructions as if I was starting from scratch. There will obviously be some ammonia in the tank already.
 
Thanks eco. One more question - if I do get the GSP a new home today, do I start the fishless cycling per your instructions as if I was starting from scratch. There will obviously be some ammonia in the tank already.


Yep, in fact hopefully you've already got a head start. Don't change filters or anything, just dose the ammo up to 3-4ppp, then sit back and relax :)
 
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