Thinking about starting my 75g as a Discus tank instead. Question about water change

[dlwn88]

So,

I recently setup a 75g freshwater tank about two weeks ago that’s currently cycling. I’ve had this plan to include a combination of Central American cichlids such as a Blue Acara, Firemouth, and most likely a green or gold Severum as well.

BUT…

I recently purchased Aquarium magazine and read the article on Discus and I’m hooked. I’m still not sure yet if I’m going to do it but I’m considering it. Patience is hard when cycling and I’ve found doing a lot of research and reading is helping out a lot!

Most articles I’ve read on the internet say it’s not as hard as everyone claims it is, just like the magazine, and everything I’ve read claims that frequent water changes to key to success in keeping these beautiful fish.

My main question is about water chemistry as far as doing a water change with tap water. I’ve created a DIY Phython (haven’t used it yet because it wont screw onto faucet, simple fix hopefully) and I know this makes changing water a lot easier, however, I know how the Discus requires soft water conditions and I’m hoping my tap water can match.

Looks like my tap has a pH of 7.4-7.5 after settling for about a day. I haven’t checked KH but my 75 gallon has been cycling for about two weeks now and my kH is really low, 3 or 4 degrees hardness and it’s all from tap (doesn’t this make for pH swings?). I’m worried that using a python would drastically change my water conditions every time I do a water change. Say for example my ph is at 6.5 in the tank and I began to do a 50% water change. If the tap water pH is coming in at 7.4 wouldn’t this a huge problem? Or do you slowly acclimate a new Discus with your current tap water conditions in your tank, or do you just thrown in buffer as you do your changes, how does this work? Trying to figure out how to do a water change without drastically changing levels.

Thanks,

-Dave

 

[WhiteDevil]

Actually your Kh is right about spot on.
Ph is close but nearly all the fish in the hobby are captive bred and most "farms" use tap or ground water.

I use equilbrium,acid and alkaline buffers once a week at PWC time, I do 50% pwc's every 3 days on the 210 discus tank we have.

any delicate fish such as discus, marine fish,rams, well basically acidic cichlids always here get the drip acclimation, its the best for for discus.

You can hit me up or RaySr on here and he can actually walk you thru this better, I know he tracks his parameters thru a excel spreadsheet that calculates his buffering needs.

 

[dlwn88]

Thanks. I actually just found your 210g build thread, really great information. I'll probably send you a message soon once my tank finishes cycling and all.

 

[WhiteDevil]

Good idea, are you seeding the tank or just starting it from scratch?

The 210 is in a stage of disarray right now(no plants, ect) I am still taking pics of the thing as we progress little by little with the fishroom build.
I can say this for sure, stay the heck away from aquariumplants.com substrate, not only is it dusty and full of sediment, it also breaks down in under a year and leaves more sediment in the water column.
We've gone as far as having a single 20gpm on each of the model 12 pumps and the eheim only to discover less then 48 hours later that the micron cartridges are clogged and its all this small particulate grey dusty stuff.

Im trying to trade off two display tanks(all glass classic oak ensemble 45H and the 52g flat back hex I got for a 75, so far just come up with a 50g with a 1" hole punched in the bottom, atleast the 50g will hold my wet/dry under it and not behind it.

We look forward to helping you out on this build as much as we can. Ours isnt a year old yet but between two of us and plenty of books and e-research we can get most issues figured out and give you a way to still maintain your goals on this tank.

What filters and heaters do you have? lighting as well.

 

[WhiteDevil]

I do have to say one thing though, its in jest. You have a FOWLR and are sweating keeping discus lol. My next tank for sure is a FOWLR AFTER I have success with the discus lol.

A discus tank is pretty much as tedious as a FOWLR or a reef tank if I had to compare the two.

Oh get a UV filter, its the best investment for discus. Im talking near instant results.

 

[dlwn88]

Just send you a PM.

I have a Marineland C360 canister rated for 100g filter as well as a Marineland HOB rated for a 70g. I just recently got the HOB because for either plan it sounds like I need a lot more filtration. 300w Heater.

I had those florescent bulbs that come with Aqueon deluxe hoods from my old tank and realized once I added two Amazon Swords that this wasn't enough. I bought a 48" Coralife T5 HO lighting, as well as the 6,700k bulb for plants. Within just a day my Amazon swords look a lot better.

Tank is still cycling, nitrites should be showing up any day now. I'm on duty right now but I can post pics of the tank tomorrow. It's not finished but it was the majority of drift would, slate rock, etc already in it.

 

[dlwn88]

I'm only sweating it because I started this hobby the 2nd day of this year haha. I had a 20g saltwater then bumped up to a 40g that's been running for almost a month. It's a bit of a PITA sometimes, like worrying about evaporation and adding new water without messing up salinity but I enjoy it. I know it's strange that I started off with salt water but the challenge was fine. In that case maybe I shouldn't worry as much. Although I've been doing this for 3 months I've learned a crap done and research all the time.

Just sounds like Discus are meant for experienced people that have been doing this for awhile lol but I've read a lot of articles that claim this isn't true.

 

[dlwn88]

Good idea, are you seeding the tank or just starting it from scratch?

Starting from scratch unfortunately using pure ammonia...I don't know anyone else with a freshwater tank. Sucks I can't just seed from my salt water tank lol. LFS want to sell me stuff instead of giving me any gravel. However, I have heard a lot of good stuff about Tetra Safe Start giving you a decent bacteria colony within a week or so if it's not old. I added it like 5 days ago, we'll see. Normally not a fan of those types of products but all the research I did showed that if any of them worked, this was the most likely one to do so.

 

[severum mama]

I agree with White Devil, go for the discus. If you can keep a FOWLR they should not be a problem for you.

If you start with juveniles, I would suggest growing them out in a bare bottom tank, then adding them to a planted tank when they get some size on them. Speaking from experience here (from my first attempt). LOL

I think your tap water will be fine for discus. I cannot comment on the use of buffers and such, as I do not use any. Fortunately, our tap is perfect for discus, very soft and pH 6.5 out of tap.

 

[WhiteDevil]

I cant comment on the fishless cycling as I have never done it. I just seed sponges and filters off established tanks then move them to the new tanks.

Ive used cycle, something called microbacter and fritz' bacteria booster, best method had been the sponges and filters so far. I ran the eheim 2080 on my 52g for two months before we put it on the 210.

I usually use a fish that is hearty that is native to the main fish I am going to be putting in a tank, overfeed a little bit but not by much and it puts a bigger bioload on the bacteria forcing the bacteria to reproduce and thus establish colonies much faster. Not proven but it works for me.

Keep that bottle of safe start in a cool DARK place. if you have a spot that stays around 67 degrees put it there and make sure its DARK. The stuff seems to be more potent when its kept cool and dark.

 

[WhiteDevil]

Yes set up a 55g tank with nothing but heaters, sponge filters and water for juveniles, feed 6-8 times a day smaller portions of high veggie and high protein foods. They do not need DIRECT lighting but one close will be enough as brighter conditions induce stress more in a bare tank.

 

[dlwn88]

I agree with White Devil, go for the discus. If you can keep a FOWLR they should not be a problem for you.

If you start with juveniles, I would suggest growing them out in a bare bottom tank, then adding them to a planted tank when they get some size on them. Speaking from experience here (from my first attempt). LOL

I think your tap water will be fine for discus. I cannot comment on the use of buffers and such, as I do not use any. Fortunately, our tap is perfect for discus, very soft and pH 6.5 out of tap.

Awesome, thanks. I just figured since I'm fairly new at this and all, it would end up not working out aka learning the hard way via fish deaths but I figure if you have a place like this where there is a ton of info then doing something more advanced shouldn't be an issue even though I've been doing it for 3 months. hopefully lol.

Is the bare bottom tank for juveniles because you have to feed them so much thus the gravel is getting dirtier faster causing a decline in water quality?

I'll have to check my tap water again when I get home tomorrow just to make sure. I know Newport News, Va has like the 20th something best tap water in the US, so I'm hoping that works out. If it does then it will make water changes a million times easier then buckets.

 

[dlwn88]

Yes set up a 55g tank with nothing but heaters, sponge filters and water for juveniles, feed 6-8 times a day smaller portions of high veggie and high protein foods. They do not need DIRECT lighting but one close will be enough as brighter conditions induce stress more in a bare tank.

I'll keep that in mind. I believe my LFS that has the discus are a bit larger, just barely adults I believe. I'd like to start off with juveniles but with my schedule I couldn't feed them that many times a day, plus I already have the 75g with the majority of the rockwork, substrate, etc in place. Maybe it's best not to start off with smaller discus's then...hmm

 

[WhiteDevil]

Pretty much yes. With BB tanks they get dirty faster because of the leftovers and dung on the bottom. also to grow them bigger check out jack wattleys tests he has done, some shocking results.

Walmart has 5g jugs for like 8 bucks the water cooler style ones, it makes it much easier but unless you got space for poly holding tanks you pretty much are limited to transporting.

There are some nice shops in Va for fish, Ill get a few for you to look up, I know there is a guy named Rama that has some awesome fish in Va.

 

[dlwn88]

There are some nice shops in Va for fish, Ill get a few for you to look up, I know there is a guy named Rama that has some awesome fish in Va.

We have a pretty decent LFS near my place in Newport News, but Virginia Beach mainly has all the good places. A little local place called Fish Safari has helped me out a lot, not your typical LFS people, really know what they are doing. Animal Jungle is huge, my favorite place to go. There are two isles just dedicated to cichlids. Looks like they recently got a bunch of Discus. There is warning sign above their tank that mentioned that you must have a fully cycled tank haha, and that due to it's sensative nature they can't refund you, the sign made it sound like a hard fish to keep lol. They looked healthy and if I don't order online I'm sure this will be the place I'll go, unless you know of some place nearby that's better

 

[dlwn88]

I'm hoping my tank will cycle correctly. I ended up giving my 20g to a buddy, and also added pure ammonia in his, and he already has nitrites, even though mine was set up like 4 days before his and I still have just ammonia. strange...

 

[Engel]

Hi there. I also want to set up a discus one day. I have angels right now. I'm reading that, just as happened with angelfish, discus breeders are beginning to raise them in regular tap water so acclimation is a lot easier.
This is from angelfishusa.com

We are proud to be able to breed, raise, and sell our Discus. All of our discus are kept in regular tap water. pH about 7.6 and TDS over 150. This is the same as our Angelfish. We even feed them our Angelfish Flake foods. We are making it easy to keep Discus for all.

 

[dlwn88]

We are proud to be able to breed, raise, and sell our Discus. All of our discus are kept in regular tap water. pH about 7.6 and TDS over 150. This is the same as our Angelfish. We even feed them our Angelfish Flake foods. We are making it easy to keep Discus for all.

Hey,

That sounds great. Just because they are kept in regular tap water does that mean they'll do excellent in this water? Basically what I'm asking is, is tap water with a pH of 7.6 and all the optimum water these Discus from angelfishusa.com prefer compared to other levels? We all known that certain fish can be technically kept at certain levels, doesn't mean they're the best for them though. Sorry, I just want to make sure before I get Discus's of my own.


Is it likely that the ones at the LFS are the same way too? I know most of them are not from the wild, that's all I know though. How does a fish get used to such a change in pH from their wild type, breeding and slow changes to the water over time?

 

[WhiteDevil]

Any discus or angels you add from a different source are something to consider as well.

They get acclimated over time and juveniles are easier to acclimate then adults that are used to softer waters.
You are researching and that is a thing not alot of fish keepers do. Discus are demanding but no more demanding then any other fish really if you want them to flourish.
You can bring Ph down with hard,heavy driftwoods such as mopani and malaysian driftwoods. They both release tannins which stain the water tea colored but its not always a bad thing as blackwater is much healthier for them to live in as well. The water thing isnt so much Ph as that can be manipulated by natural and artificial methods but more in stripping the water of the TDS and giving them PURE water and using buffers to go up or down, we use Co2 to control the Ph in the discus tank and it actually raises the Ph of my RO water from 5.3 to 6.4
Unless you personally pay the importing fee and collecting fee, dont count on them being true wilds. Unless its a reputable breeder and they say they are wild id trust em. You dont want anything under an F1 grade for a wild fish.
I plan on getting the green glitter angels from that site and will drip them to my water when I get them to grow them out for breeding.
I find the best way is to drip acclimate them to your water over a period of hours, if its a hard floor surface, put a towel folded up under the bucket and a cover on top, this is a SLOW way to get them acclimated to YOUR water and works with ANY fish.