To CO2 or not to CO2?

[wabyrd]

At what point do I need CO2? Or do I ever really NEED CO2? I've got my 55 gallon tank that's partially planted in plain old blue gravel that seems to be growing fine at the moment. The tank is slightly overstocked with fish, but I'll be removing some of the fry next week for a trip to the LFS. I am assuming that the excess fish produce enough CO2 for the plants. I've only got 1.2 watts per gallon of light, so it's not overlit. I have had one of my swords shoot off a baby sword that I planted in the foreground. Is it safe to assume that with this growth that a CO2 supplement is not necessary at this time?

 

[wabyrd]

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I run an airstone at night when the lights are off to counter the respiration of the plants and to boost the O2 concentration. The airstone goes off at the crack of dawn though.

 

[Guest]

I've only got 1.2 watts per gallon of light, so it's not overlit.

Co2 will do you no good with this wpg. you have to get up to over 2.5wpg for co2 to make any difference.

If things are going well, and you and the fish are happy, don't change anything!

 

[wabyrd]

Thanks covuscorax. I was unsure if I was really in need of CO2 and was considering the Coke bottle DIY method. I guess if I did this it would just be a waste.
So does this mean that there is enough CO2 for the plants from the fish? Since I have relatively low lighting, the plants aren't growing as fast as possible, so they don't need any more CO2 than what is present already? Or are the plants still doing some sort of normal O2 respiration in the lower light thereby taking O2 from the fish?

I have noticed some pearling from a few of my Anacharis and Green Wendtii's right after a water change. Is there that much CO2 in my tap water?

If I add more (low light) plants will CO2 become a problem? I was thinking about getting something that would grow to cover the bottom of the tank.

Finally, if I do go over 2.5 WPG, will it then be NECESSARY to get CO2, or would it still be optional?

 

[Guest]

Wow, lotta questions! totally cool.

So does this mean that there is enough CO2 for the plants from the fish?

I would think yes.

Since I have relatively low lighting, the plants aren't growing as fast as possible, so they don't need any more CO2 than what is present already? Or are the plants still doing some sort of normal O2 respiration in the lower light thereby taking O2 from the fish?

I would think you have achieved a good balance of fish load to plants, and they are complimenting each others needs in the co2 o2 department.

I have noticed some pearling from a few of my Anacharis and Green Wendtii's right after a water change. Is there that much CO2 in my tap water?

This is a common phenomenon, even with co2 injected tanks, I get it too. I have never seen a good explaqnation for it, except MAYBE that tap water contains some trace elements (what they are, I dont know) that cause some pearing for a few hours/days.

If I add more (low light) plants will CO2 become a problem? I was thinking about getting something that would grow to cover the bottom of the tank.

Tough one, I'm not sure. However, in general, low growing foreground plants need more light. Since plants are pretty cheap, I'd go ahead and try a couple. I would also like to add that for me, foreground plants give me more troble than any other. They either won't stay planted, or get way taller than they are supposed to.

Finally, if I do go over 2.5 WPG, will it then be NECESSARY to get CO2, or would it still be optional?

Most likely you will need it. What will likely happen if you dont use co2 is various algae outbreaks, and they are the most frustrating problem in a planted tank.

Whew!

 

[wabyrd]

Thanks covuscorax, you've been a great help, but one more...

I would think you have achieved a good balance of fish load to plants, and they are complimenting each others needs in the co2 o2 department.

Does this mean you wouldn't add more plants? And how will I know if I tip the balance and there isn't enough CO2 in the tank? Will the plants remain healty and not grow, or will they begin to die?

 

[Guest]

Does this mean you wouldn't add more plants? And how will I know if I tip the balance and there isn't enough CO2 in the tank? Will the plants remain healty and not grow, or will they begin to die?

Add more plants if you like, but probably not too many, and certainly slowly, not a whole bunch at once. If you really want to get a lot more plants, start thinking about lighting upgrade and co2.

Your situation is one I'm really not familiar with at all, so good answers are hard to come by, this is mostly guesswork on my part. I'm very hesitant to recomend many changes, due to the fact that you are having success the way things are.

I think to start with, I need to know:

What is your goal for this tank?
It sounds like things are going so well, what do you want to change?

Not challenging you or anything, just curious. I know I've changed tanks all around just cuz I felt like it dozens of times! However, IME, I've always done best when deciding what I want the final result to be, doing my homework, then going for the change. Shooting from the hip on tank changes has had decidedly mixed results for me.

Oh yeah, in the future, just call me CC, much easier than my stupid handle!

 

[eykis9]

pardon me but what is "pearling" or "pearing"? it is mentioned above ....

 

[Guest]

Pearling is when your plants give off pure oxygen bubbles. This means that photosynthesis is taking place at a very high rate, and that the water in the tank is so saturated with O2 that the water cannot contain any more oxygen. Therefore the O2 must be released from the plants as bubbles. In general, when you see pearling, you have optimum conditions in your tank!

 

[wabyrd]

What is your goal for this tank?
It sounds like things are going so well, what do you want to change?

Hmmm...good question. I have pictures of my tank in my gallery and in the Photo section. You can see that it's kinda bare but I think it looks ok. I guess my goal is to remove the remaing plastic plants and replace them with live ones. I like the little Green (and Bronze) Wendtii and I really like the Anacharis (as long as I can keep it anchored. I found one at liveaquaria.com that I liked (don't recall the name, but it was a low light, foreground plant). I don't have a background behind my tank, so I'd like a little bit more of my natural background, but not necessarily a THICK one. It's OK if I see a little green wall behind the tank. I have some Moneywort and Watersprite back there now and wouldn't mind haveing a couple of more of those in the background. I also like having my few swords in the mix for some variety. I wouldn't mind upgrading my lights, but I don't know if it would make the tank TOO bright. I really like the brighness the way it is now. Things I don't really want to do...Tear down to put flourite or some other new substrate in. It's a large established tank. I'm afraid that would mean disaster. I don't want that.

I guess I'll just slowly add some low light foreground plants and see how they do for now. I'll add only one or two at a time. I forgot to mention that I leave my lights on about 18 hours a day. I know, it's a long time, but my fish have plenty of hiding spaces to escape the light.

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep you posted as to what changes and I'll put new pics up in my gallery. I'll also be creating a fish page on my personal website with some frequently updated pics.

 

[Guest]

OK, looked at pics. I would agree on replacing the plastic plants with real, that would look better.

I have some Moneywort and Watersprite back there now and wouldn't mind haveing a couple of more of those in the background.

Both of those can be reproduced via cuttings, just cut some off and replant.

As for your Wenditti, mine grow new plants by way of runners, I started with just a few, now must have close to 50.

Your plan for adding a few plants at a time sounds solid to me, I'd say go for it!

 

[eykis9]

oh yes....

ahh, yes... as displayed here: http://www.e-aquaria.com/n_rotundifoliagreen.html

& here: http://www.e-aquaria.com/n_verticillata.html

pretty cool!

something like this is my goal: http://www.e-aquaria.com/exp_eleung.html

 

[wabyrd]

Hey CC, I did my water change tonight and clipped a few sprigs of watersprite to grow as floaters (just a trial basis) and I also clipped some moneywort to replant as well as splitting up some of my anacharis. I decided not to go buy anything else and to just be patient and see how things grow for now. I hope that the Wendtii sprouts up some runners soon to start filling things in though. Thanks again for the advice.

 

[littlelouie]

Great read guy's and very informative.

I have a 6gal/23ltr tank with 5 cardinal tetras and a clown loach (he'll be moved before he gets too big). The garden consists of 1 java fern, 2 potted crypts and 1 anubias (+ 2 palstic plants). My question regards the medium that the potted crypts are in....what is it and if my clown loach rips it away from the pot will it do any harm. It is behind the plant and out of view. Pls see pic below.

Thanks
Louise

Sorry for the dbl up on the pic...I had trouble

 

[littlelouie]

Does anyone have a reply to my question on potted crypts? (above post)

Cheers
Louise

 

[wabyrd]

LOOK AT THIS!!!

Hey CC, here are some more pics of my tank that I took today. This is incredible!

It's hard to tell in the pic, but the branch of Anacharis going off to the right is about an inch long. In ONLY 24 hours! I was totally blown away by it being there! 8O

Here's another branch of Anacharis that appeared in only 24 hours!

Ditto.

Finally here's a full tank shot showing where I am now. The right side is a little dark since I had a bulb go out on me today. I'm off to the store to get a new one as soon as I finish this post.

Thanks for all the help you''ve given me!

 

[Guest]

Lookin good wabyrd!

Louie: The medium is called rockwool. Some people leave it in the pot, I prefer to take the whole thing outta the pot. i don't have clown loaches, no idea on what they'll do.

If you wish to take plant out of pot, here is the technique. Using scissors, clip the plastic pot away. then remove the rockwool, slowly and carefully, so as to leave as many roots intact as possible. then replant the Crypt to the same depth it was in the pot.

Louie, also, for quicker answer, start a new thread next time!

 

[littlelouie]

Cheers CC, just thought I'd chime in on the active thread

btw...does replanting the crypts without the medium help them grow faster?

LL

 

[Guest]

CO2 may help your tank. There is always a limiting factor in a planted tank. I have found that CO2 does help low light tanks. Not as much as it does in higher light tanks but it does help. But running the air-stone at night is going to negate the effects that CO2 have. If you got the DIY route on a 55 gallon tank it's VERY hard to get CO2 levels too high if you have even a minimum amount of kH.

 

[wabyrd]

I run the air at night to counter the effects of the plants' nighttime respiration. I don't have the lights on to promote photosynthesis. I've found that without the air running at night, my fish tend to gather at the top of the tank in the morning until the lights have been on for about a half hour to an hour. So far, the plants are growing like crazy without the CO2 setup; however, if I do decide to do CO2, I think I'm going to go all the way with a real setup instead of DIY. I've heard from several other people that DIY CO2 is a real PIA in that it requires a lot of time for setup and a lot of work to keep the levels up. Not worth my time.